| বিষয়ের পেজ: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21] > | translation is dead as a profession থ্রেড পোস্টার: Daniel Rich
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Lieven Malaise wrote:
Let's also not forget that the situation is far from uniform across different domains and language combinations so a translator who is struggling is not necessarily a worse translator than one doing better. I see this assumption a lot and it is not very helpful. Imagine how it feels to lose your livelihood and at the same time get a verbal kicking from your peers.
I don't think I ever said that a struggling translator is by definition a bad translator. I do believe, though, that a (long) struggling translator is doing things wrong in one way or another (rates too high, lack of communication skills/efforts, lack of marketing skills/efforts, whatever).
That wasn't aimed at you specifically, more a general comment on the tone of the debate in the whole profession sometimes.
| | | | Dan Lucas 
যুক্তরাজ্য
Local time: 16:55
2014 থেকে সদস্য
জাপানি থেকে ইংরেজি
Rachel Waddington wrote:
It may not be the 'worst of us' that end up leaving the profession first. I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field - and they have no interest in doing badly paid MTPE jobs.
This is a persuasive point. How do people become highly specialised and (presumably) successful? Through having confidence, a strong sense of self-efficacy and their own agency, a willingness to invest in themselves, and a can-do attitude.
It's not a stretch to assume that these attributes would also tend to ease the transition from translation to other lines of work and so - ceteris paribus - lead to such people exiting the industry more quickly.
Regards,
Dan
| | | | Denis Fesik
Local time: 19:55
ইংরেজি থেকে রাশিয়ান
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| I may be naive but I want to believe in humankind | Aug 8, 2023 |
Certain processes, and the extremes to which they are being pushed, may give rise to a belief that we will one day abandon all learning, all language, all hard work, all pursuit of truth (and become vegetables babysat by robots). My belief is that we can still change things even if they are bigger than us and even when today's puppetmasters are using consent engineering tricks to make us put up with the way things are going. There's basic enthropy that says we will all rot away and precipitate i... See more Certain processes, and the extremes to which they are being pushed, may give rise to a belief that we will one day abandon all learning, all language, all hard work, all pursuit of truth (and become vegetables babysat by robots). My belief is that we can still change things even if they are bigger than us and even when today's puppetmasters are using consent engineering tricks to make us put up with the way things are going. There's basic enthropy that says we will all rot away and precipitate into subatomic particles, so why bother. And nevertheless, I don't believe all or even most people have that vegetable take on life (does anyone know if Kesey's "One flew..." will be banned anytime soon?).
True, there is a generation of those who haven't been reading anything other than maybe comic books as kids. Those who have been offered education as a service so their teachers, as servants, couldn't do anything to make them learn or enforce discipline on them (don't know if it's true or not, but I heard that when Jackie Chan's parents were sending him to school, they signed a paper saying that the teacher could do anything to their son, even kill him if need be). A young person can become a good translator in the face of these trends, but only if they choose to take the hard way. Which is why whenever I see signs of intellectual labor in a translated text, I'm always pleasantly surprised: most translations coming my way are perfectly machine-like even if done by humans. Pessimists are better prepared, aren't they? And yet I believe people will learn how to deal with the new things the latest tech breakthroughs have brought us; it's just a learning phase. I know that civilizations have been dying throughout history. Don't want ours to die just yet... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
বেলজিয়াম
Local time: 17:55
2020 থেকে সদস্য
ফেঞ্চ/ফরাসি থেকে ডাচ
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Rachel Waddington wrote:
You might not be, but other translators do have degrees and master's degrees in other fields, or have worked in those fields in the first place, or have just worked hard to develop new knowledge and skills. It makes sense that such translators might be quicker to move out of translation if they don't like the developments they are seeing here.
But being highly specialised through multiple degrees other than languages or translation says nothing about the quality of a translator. Translation is learnt by learning to thoroughly master all aspects of your mother tongue in the first place and your source languages in the second (often through a degree at a younger age) and further by just doing it, not by getting a degree in some specialisation field you work in (it would be even virtually useless because until this day there hasn't been
a single engineering, legal or medical concept (to use only those specialisation fields among many more) that couldn't be explained through the internet or by ultimately asking some explanation to the end client). During my career I've been dealing with translations of several people without a language degree but 'highly specialized' because they were engineers, for example. Well, their work was terrible to highly mediocre at best. Which makes sense, because mastering languages at a professional translation level is a specialisation in itself. You can't just skip that part. Hence the terribly large number of people working in our business who shouldn't be working in it.
With that in mind it also makes sense to me that those profiles will leave the industry faster than passionate translation geeks that will explore every possibility to keep on thriving in this business, despite all changes, before finally giving up.
(disclaimer: yes, there will always be exceptions, people who excel in virtually everything, but they are first and foremost what they are: exceptions)
[Edited at 2023-08-08 14:20 GMT]
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Rachel Waddington wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field - and they have no interest in doing badly paid MTPE jobs.
May I ask where you are seeing this?
It's not a sign of failure to move between jobs if things aren't working out any more.
Isn't "things not working out" the very definition of failure?
We tend to celebrate it when people come to translation from other fields
Do we? Failed lawyers etc are even more likely to fail at translation. (Yes, there are exceptions.)
but label people as 'failed translators' when they move in the other direction. I see no reason for that.
I wouldn't say that, but that is what they are if it's because "things didn't work out".
We're not yet at a stage where anyone can blame "the market" or "AI" for failing to make a living from translation. There's still plenty of work out there. The only possible culprits are poor translation skills and poor marketing skills. The writing is on the wall, but the wall has yet to come down.
When it does, I will blame my poor marketing skills for my failure as a translator, and nothing else.
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Dan Lucas wrote:
Ice Scream wrote:
I started as an in-house translator in the UK in 1993 on £15,000.
I was a trainee at one of the Big Six firms in London at the same time and I believe I was on slightly less than that...
Dan
Oops, got my numbers slightly wrong. I started on £12,500 in 1993. It was my first employee who started on £15,000 in 1995. Maybe I was being a bit generous.
Point stands though. You wouldn't start on £30k-plus now...
| | | | Susanna Martoni
ইটালি
Local time: 17:55
2009 থেকে সদস্য
স্প্যানিশ থেকে ইটালিয়ান
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| I don't know/I’m confused | Aug 9, 2023 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
Rachel Waddington wrote:
It may not be the 'worst of us' that end up leaving the profession first. I'm seeing a lot of highly specialised translators moving into different fields because they have other options - they have taken specialisation to a level where they can work in a different role in their specialist field - and they have no interest in doing badly paid MTPE jobs.
This is a persuasive point. How do people become highly specialised and (presumably) successful? Through having confidence, a strong sense of self-efficacy and their own agency, a willingness to invest in themselves, and a can-do attitude.
It's not a stretch to assume that these attributes would also tend to ease the transition from translation to other lines of work and so - ceteris paribus - lead to such people exiting the industry more quickly.
Regards,
Dan
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
The only thing that I know is that most of my regular clients seem to seek different services and are not regular.
Yes, things have changed a lot and we need to act (and struggle) in different manners.
[Modificato alle 2023-08-09 10:51 GMT]
| | | | | My pinch of salt | Aug 10, 2023 |
A thread that runs over two years, impressive!
Every new technology appears to be received with suspicion, and a healthy does of scepticism is always a good thing.
However, we also need to adapt.
If we re-read the posts of about 10+ years ago, you would find a lot of angry messages against PE, that it would be the end of translation as we know it. We now know the situation is a lot more nuanced.
Nobody quite knows what AI will bring: regression, evolution or revolution?
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| Giving up is still not an option | Aug 10, 2023 |
True, workflow is irregular and all, but at the same time I am still earning more than most jobs in my area: I would not venture into the world and start working away from home (with all the expenses and stress) until this job makes me earn less than 1.000 EUR (after tax) a month.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র
Local time: 11:55
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[Edited at 2023-08-11 19:27 GMT]
| | | | Tom in London
যুক্তরাজ্য
Local time: 16:55
2008 থেকে সদস্য
ইটালিয়ান থেকে ইংরেজি
| Will the "translation is dead as a profession" thread ever die ? | Aug 13, 2023 |
Will the "translation is dead as a profession" thread ever die ?
[Edited at 2023-08-13 11:37 GMT]
| | | | Dan Lucas
যুক্তরাজ্য
Local time: 16:55
2014 থেকে সদস্য
জাপানি থেকে ইংরেজি
Tom in London wrote:
Will the "translation is dead as a profession" thread ever die ?
Which will die first - this thread or the profession?
Place your bets, ladies and gents..
Dan
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Susanna Martoni
ইটালি
Local time: 17:55
2009 থেকে সদস্য
স্প্যানিশ থেকে ইটালিয়ান
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Nice.
So, nobody will discuss about translation death, it is not an overall concern and it is not important for everybody (are we sure?).
Should somebody feel inferior or "out of something" because things are not exacly going where we expect?
| | | | IrinaN
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র
Local time: 10:55
ইংরেজি থেকে রাশিয়ান
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| Failure in my book | Aug 16, 2023 |
Means one thing only - a chosen profession no longer puts bread on the table. For whatever reason...
| | | | Stephen Emm
Local time: 16:55
ফেঞ্চ/ফরাসি থেকে ইংরেজি
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Ice Scream wrote:
Stephen Emm wrote:
I think there a very few in-house translation jobs in the UK now and in-house jobs are not brilliantly paid.
I also very much doubt that the average freelance translator earns much more than the figure you give
I started as an in-house translator in the UK in 1993 on £15,000.
With inflation, that’s £40,000 (46,000 euros) today.
No way junior in-house translators are paid that now.
Interesting- I also started as an in-house translator, but in 2001 yet my starting salary was still £15,000.
Even a senior in-house translator would not be earning £40,000 today.
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