Oct 10, 2004 01:10
19 yrs ago
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Arabic term
United States
Law/Investments/Finance (PhD & MBA)
Native in: English 
, Arabic
Works in: Arabic to English, English to Arabic, French to English, and 2 more.
اقوام لا خلاق لهم
Arabic to English
Art/Literary
Religion
Taken from a hadith:
فان الله يؤيد هذا الدين بالرجل الفاجر وباقوام لا خلاق لهم
Does that mean what it means, ie, that God supports this religion through the dissolute man and unworthy/unsuitable people??? Can anyone tell me what is going on here? The overall hadith (Ibn Taymiya) seems to back up such a version, since it talks about the "dissolute man" (rajol faajer) legitimately and justifiably fighting for religion. Anyone versed in Islamic studies cares to comment and tell me what it's all about?... Many thanks.
فان الله يؤيد هذا الدين بالرجل الفاجر وباقوام لا خلاق لهم
Does that mean what it means, ie, that God supports this religion through the dissolute man and unworthy/unsuitable people??? Can anyone tell me what is going on here? The overall hadith (Ibn Taymiya) seems to back up such a version, since it talks about the "dissolute man" (rajol faajer) legitimately and justifiably fighting for religion. Anyone versed in Islamic studies cares to comment and tell me what it's all about?... Many thanks.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+2
30 mins
Moushira El-Mogy
Native in Arabic
11 years of accuracy within deadlines
Native in: Arabic 
Works in: English to Arabic, Italian to Arabic, English to Italian, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Arabic term (edited):
����� �� ���� ���
Selected
yes
http://www.alazhr.org/Sonna/Default.asp?Lang=a&ViewNo=&Actio...
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Note added at 32 mins (2004-10-10 01:42:27 GMT)
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http://www.alazhr.org/Sonna/Default.asp?Lang=a&ViewNo=&Actio...
http://www.alazhr.org/Sonna/Default.asp?Lang=a&ViewNo=&Actio...
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Note added at 33 mins (2004-10-10 01:43:14 GMT)
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Links from al-Azhar Al Sharif explaining the issue
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Note added at 42 mins (2004-10-10 01:52:25 GMT)
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It means that God support this religion through giving also examples about bad people to show the difference between good and bad.
قوله: (باب إن الله ليؤيد الدين بالرجل الفاجر) ذكر فيه حديث أبى هريرة فى قصة الرجل الذى قاتل وقال النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم\"إنه من أهل النار\"وظهر بعد ذلك أنه قتل نفسه.
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Note added at 1 hr 38 mins (2004-10-10 02:48:45 GMT)
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Jacques, what I sent was an explanation to your question about \"What is going on here?\" and not a translation.
The meaning: لا خلا ق لهم = لا نصيب لهم من خير
Translation: People who have no share in the good fortune.
I did my best on this one. Maybe someone could come up with a better translation.
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Note added at 1 hr 43 mins (2004-10-10 02:53:20 GMT)
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also people who have no Share of happiness
http://dictionary.al-islam.com/ARB/Dicts/SelDict.asp?Applica...
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Note added at 2 hrs 4 mins (2004-10-10 03:14:07 GMT)
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and tis is the last link:
http://quran.al-islam.com/Search/hits.asp?SearchText=�� ����&Sea...
contains تفسير و ترجمة
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Note added at 4 hrs 8 mins (2004-10-10 05:18:39 GMT)
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No \"prejudging\" at all. You see, those dissolute people have already chosen the wrong path, which would lead them not to have any fortune in the hereafter. They would be judged according to their intentions and hence their subsequent actions. It is through their \"bad deeds\" that people who are faithful to God would learn not to imitate the dissolute ones so they would not reach the same bad destiny (hellfire). One needs not to isolate the idea that the \"one sentence\" brings but rather the context or the events that brought such expression. This way we would not fall into any dilemmas.
In sourat \"Al-Imran\" verse 77:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَشْتَرُونَ بِعَهْدِ اللَّهِ وَأَيْمَانِهِمْ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلاً أُوْلَئِكَ لا خَلاقَ لَهُمْ فِي الأخِرَةِ وَلا يُكَلِّمُهُمُ اللَّهُ وَلا يَنْظُرُ إِلَيْهِمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَلا يُزَكِّيهِمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ(77)}
The verse in English:
[77] As for those who sell the faith they owe to Allah and their own plighted word for a small price, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter: nor will Allah (deign to) speak to them or look at them on the Day of Judgment, nor will He cleanse them (of sin): they shall have a grievous Penalty.
Interpretation of Ibn-Kathir in Arabic:
تفسير ابن كثير
\" أُولَئِكَ لَا خَلَاقَ لَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَة \" أَيْ لَا نَصِيب لَهُمْ فِيهَا وَلَا حَظّ لَهُمْ مِنْهَا \" وَلَا يُكَلِّمهُمْ اللَّه وَلَا يَنْظُر إِلَيْهِمْ يَوْم الْقِيَامَة \" أَيْ بِرَحْمَةٍ مِنْهُ لَهُمْ يَعْنِي لَا يُكَلِّمهُمْ اللَّه كَلَام لُطْف بِهِمْ وَلَا يَنْظُر إِلَيْهِمْ بِعَيْنِ الرَّحْمَة \" وَلَا يُزَكِّيهِمْ \" أَيْ مِنْ الذُّنُوب وَالْأَدْنَاس بَلْ يَأْمُر بِهِمْ إِلَى النَّار \" وَلَهُمْ عَذَاب أَلِيم
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Note added at 32 mins (2004-10-10 01:42:27 GMT)
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http://www.alazhr.org/Sonna/Default.asp?Lang=a&ViewNo=&Actio...
http://www.alazhr.org/Sonna/Default.asp?Lang=a&ViewNo=&Actio...
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Note added at 33 mins (2004-10-10 01:43:14 GMT)
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Links from al-Azhar Al Sharif explaining the issue
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Note added at 42 mins (2004-10-10 01:52:25 GMT)
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It means that God support this religion through giving also examples about bad people to show the difference between good and bad.
قوله: (باب إن الله ليؤيد الدين بالرجل الفاجر) ذكر فيه حديث أبى هريرة فى قصة الرجل الذى قاتل وقال النبى صلى الله عليه وسلم\"إنه من أهل النار\"وظهر بعد ذلك أنه قتل نفسه.
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Note added at 1 hr 38 mins (2004-10-10 02:48:45 GMT)
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Jacques, what I sent was an explanation to your question about \"What is going on here?\" and not a translation.
The meaning: لا خلا ق لهم = لا نصيب لهم من خير
Translation: People who have no share in the good fortune.
I did my best on this one. Maybe someone could come up with a better translation.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 43 mins (2004-10-10 02:53:20 GMT)
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also people who have no Share of happiness
http://dictionary.al-islam.com/ARB/Dicts/SelDict.asp?Applica...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 4 mins (2004-10-10 03:14:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
and tis is the last link:
http://quran.al-islam.com/Search/hits.asp?SearchText=�� ����&Sea...
contains تفسير و ترجمة
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs 8 mins (2004-10-10 05:18:39 GMT)
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No \"prejudging\" at all. You see, those dissolute people have already chosen the wrong path, which would lead them not to have any fortune in the hereafter. They would be judged according to their intentions and hence their subsequent actions. It is through their \"bad deeds\" that people who are faithful to God would learn not to imitate the dissolute ones so they would not reach the same bad destiny (hellfire). One needs not to isolate the idea that the \"one sentence\" brings but rather the context or the events that brought such expression. This way we would not fall into any dilemmas.
In sourat \"Al-Imran\" verse 77:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَشْتَرُونَ بِعَهْدِ اللَّهِ وَأَيْمَانِهِمْ ثَمَنًا قَلِيلاً أُوْلَئِكَ لا خَلاقَ لَهُمْ فِي الأخِرَةِ وَلا يُكَلِّمُهُمُ اللَّهُ وَلا يَنْظُرُ إِلَيْهِمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَلا يُزَكِّيهِمْ وَلَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ(77)}
The verse in English:
[77] As for those who sell the faith they owe to Allah and their own plighted word for a small price, they shall have no portion in the Hereafter: nor will Allah (deign to) speak to them or look at them on the Day of Judgment, nor will He cleanse them (of sin): they shall have a grievous Penalty.
Interpretation of Ibn-Kathir in Arabic:
تفسير ابن كثير
\" أُولَئِكَ لَا خَلَاقَ لَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَة \" أَيْ لَا نَصِيب لَهُمْ فِيهَا وَلَا حَظّ لَهُمْ مِنْهَا \" وَلَا يُكَلِّمهُمْ اللَّه وَلَا يَنْظُر إِلَيْهِمْ يَوْم الْقِيَامَة \" أَيْ بِرَحْمَةٍ مِنْهُ لَهُمْ يَعْنِي لَا يُكَلِّمهُمْ اللَّه كَلَام لُطْف بِهِمْ وَلَا يَنْظُر إِلَيْهِمْ بِعَيْنِ الرَّحْمَة \" وَلَا يُزَكِّيهِمْ \" أَيْ مِنْ الذُّنُوب وَالْأَدْنَاس بَلْ يَأْمُر بِهِمْ إِلَى النَّار \" وَلَهُمْ عَذَاب أَلِيم
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
ahmed ismaiel owieda
3 hrs
|
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Thank you Ahmed
|
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| agree |
Alaa AHMED
3 hrs
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Thank you Alaa
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks Moushira for your help and for basically confirming my understanding (which was the purpose of my question)... Your links are quite helpful, although some of the interpretations you gave did not agree with mine, but I guess that was not the main purpose of the question... Many thanks also go to Alaa and Nancy for their pointed explanations..."
+2
2 hrs
Alaa Zeineldine
Egypt
Egypt
Native in Arabic
&
English
Works in field
Egypt
The best in IT ... and in Automotive
Native in: Arabic , English
Works in: English to Arabic, Arabic to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
48
Arabic term (edited):
����� �� ���� ���
men (or people) who will have no share in heaven
Yes, it is true, but not in the way that you envision it. First let us understand the word خلاق: according to مختار الصحاح:
الخلاق : النصيب
A usage example is in the following phrase from ayah 102 of surat al-baqara:
وَلَقَدْ عَلِمُوا لَمَنِ اشْتَرَاهُ مَا لَهُ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنْ خَلَاقٍ
This mentions that those who ignored the warning of the two angels against learning the sorcery that they could teach them knew that whomever uses that magic will gain no share in heaven in the hereafter. The word is also used in ayat 200 and 201 as follows:
فمن الناس من يقول ربنا آتنا في الدنيا وما له في الآخرة من خلاق
ومنهم من يقول ربنا آتنا في الدنيا حسنة وفي الآخرة حسنة وقنا عذاب النار
This should take care of any confusion between خلاق and خُلـُق
Now to the question of how would Allah support Islam with deviant men and those who will have no share in heaven. What this means is that some people's actions can be helpful to the faith as a matter of fate -just like natural events- even though they may be driven by their own motives, which may or may not be deliberately in common with those of the faithful.
The following hadith from Sahih Al-Bukhari gives an example, bearing in mind that suicide is considered an act of "kufr":
عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه قال:
شهدنا مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم خيبر فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لرجل ممن معه يدعي الإسلام هذا من أهل النار فلما حضر القتال قاتل الرجل من أشد القتال وكثرت به الجراح فأثبتته فجاء رجل من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال يا رسول الله أرأيت الرجل الذي تحدثت أنه من أهل النار قد قاتل في سبيل الله من أشد القتال فكثرت به الجراح فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أما إنه من أهل النار فكاد بعض المسلمين يرتاب فبينما هو على ذلك إذ وجد الرجل ألم الجراح فأهوى بيده إلى كنانته فانتزع منها سهما فانتحر بها فاشتد رجال من المسلمين إلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالوا يا رسول الله صدق الله حديثك قد انتحر فلان فقتل نفسه فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يا بلال قم فأذن لا يدخل الجنة إلا مؤمن وإن الله ليؤيد هذا الدين بالرجل الفاجر
Another example is the support that the prophet received from his uncle Abu-Talib, who would not be considered فاجر, yet he refused to accept the faith on his death bed, so he had no share in heaven. You can of course envision many situations where Allah may have inspired someone to do work that helps the faith, or that rids the faithful from an enemy, while acting on their own interest independent of the faith itself.
Hope this helps.
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Note added at 2 hrs 56 mins (2004-10-10 04:06:01 GMT)
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I wrote this in haste, so:
- I did not realize that Moushira had already covered a good part of the subject.
- There are some typos, so please overlook them.
الخلاق : النصيب
A usage example is in the following phrase from ayah 102 of surat al-baqara:
وَلَقَدْ عَلِمُوا لَمَنِ اشْتَرَاهُ مَا لَهُ فِي الْآخِرَةِ مِنْ خَلَاقٍ
This mentions that those who ignored the warning of the two angels against learning the sorcery that they could teach them knew that whomever uses that magic will gain no share in heaven in the hereafter. The word is also used in ayat 200 and 201 as follows:
فمن الناس من يقول ربنا آتنا في الدنيا وما له في الآخرة من خلاق
ومنهم من يقول ربنا آتنا في الدنيا حسنة وفي الآخرة حسنة وقنا عذاب النار
This should take care of any confusion between خلاق and خُلـُق
Now to the question of how would Allah support Islam with deviant men and those who will have no share in heaven. What this means is that some people's actions can be helpful to the faith as a matter of fate -just like natural events- even though they may be driven by their own motives, which may or may not be deliberately in common with those of the faithful.
The following hadith from Sahih Al-Bukhari gives an example, bearing in mind that suicide is considered an act of "kufr":
عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه قال:
شهدنا مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم خيبر فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لرجل ممن معه يدعي الإسلام هذا من أهل النار فلما حضر القتال قاتل الرجل من أشد القتال وكثرت به الجراح فأثبتته فجاء رجل من أصحاب النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال يا رسول الله أرأيت الرجل الذي تحدثت أنه من أهل النار قد قاتل في سبيل الله من أشد القتال فكثرت به الجراح فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أما إنه من أهل النار فكاد بعض المسلمين يرتاب فبينما هو على ذلك إذ وجد الرجل ألم الجراح فأهوى بيده إلى كنانته فانتزع منها سهما فانتحر بها فاشتد رجال من المسلمين إلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالوا يا رسول الله صدق الله حديثك قد انتحر فلان فقتل نفسه فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يا بلال قم فأذن لا يدخل الجنة إلا مؤمن وإن الله ليؤيد هذا الدين بالرجل الفاجر
Another example is the support that the prophet received from his uncle Abu-Talib, who would not be considered فاجر, yet he refused to accept the faith on his death bed, so he had no share in heaven. You can of course envision many situations where Allah may have inspired someone to do work that helps the faith, or that rids the faithful from an enemy, while acting on their own interest independent of the faith itself.
Hope this helps.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 56 mins (2004-10-10 04:06:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I wrote this in haste, so:
- I did not realize that Moushira had already covered a good part of the subject.
- There are some typos, so please overlook them.
10 hrs
Arabic term (edited):
����� �� ���� ���
NOT AN ANSWER - JUST A COMMENT
I agree with everyone. I would just like to answer Jacques' question "whoever is judged to be dissolute will simply choose not to partake of any military expedition to defend the faith". Ma3awiyyah ibn abi Sufyan with all his fighting of the rightful khalifa Ali and despotic rule and imposing his son Yazeed as khalifa thus establishing a dynastic rule; has established great extensions of the islamic state, however he may have viewed this as establishing his and his dynasty's empire. Thus they might be doing a good deed not knowing so. Whether Ma3awiyya goes to heaven or to hell I have no clue
11 hrs
Arabic term (edited):
����� �� ���� ���
NOT AN ANSWER - JUST A COMMENT
I agree with everyone. I would just like to answer Jacques' question "whoever is judged to be dissolute will simply choose not to partake of any military expedition to defend the faith". Ma3awiyyah ibn abi Sufyan with all his fighting of the rightful khalifa Ali and despotic rule and imposing his son Yazeed as khalifa thus establishing a dynastic rule; has established great extensions of the islamic state, however he may have viewed this as establishing his and his dynasty's empire. Thus they might be doing a good deed not knowing so. Whether Ma3awiyya goes to heaven or to hell I have no clue
1 day 4 hrs
Nancy Eweiss
Egypt
Egypt
Native in Arabic
Specializes in field
Egypt
27 yrs certified/medical-pharm.
Native in: Arabic (Variant: Egyptian)
Works in: English to Arabic, Arabic to English
Related KudoZ points
:
36
Arabic term (edited):
����� �� ���� ���
Explanation
I consulted one of my Hadîth professors and he said the following:
1. In the first Hadith, reported by al-Bukhârî; as posted by Alaa and Moushira, the man was fighting with the Muslims, but he was actually one of the hypocrites (whose status is known in Islâm and there is a Sûrah in the Qur'ân called 'al-Munâfiqûn; the hypocrites), that is why the narrator said, ( رجل ممـن يدعي الإسلام) i.e. claiming to be a Muslim while he was not sincerely one). The man fought very bravely in the battle, but he was actually fighting to defend his own tribe, not to support the Muslims in their war with the disbelievers. When the man could not tolerate the pain and killed himself, the Companions were surprised for what he did; having seen how bravely he fought, yet he committed suicide. The Prophet then said to them, "إن الله ليؤيد هذا الدين بالرجل الفاجر."
A man could be immoral, dissolute, committing all sorts of major sins (that is why he is called a فاجر)… … like the man in this narration, but "Unintentionally he supported the Muslims in their fight with the disbelievers." So, it is by the will of Allâh that some people would do something in the favor of Islâm or defend the Muslims, but their intention is not always to support Islâm, it could be for their own personal reason, glory, fame, money etc.. and sometimes Islâm is supported by people who are not Muslims, but they are fair like the late German orientalist, very nice lady, 'Ann Marie Schimmel who excelled in Arabic and left great works about Islâm and the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم.
The Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم did not mean that we would go out of our way to use dissolute or immoral people to support Islâm, but they themselves would do it unintentionally; it is like 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'! Hope this is clear now.
2. The other Hadîth " بأقوام لا خلاق لهم " This was reported by Imâm Ahmad in his Musnad, with the wordings, " إن الله سيؤيد هذا الدين بأقوام لا خلاق لهم" It is also an authentic Hadîth (Sahih).
Imâm at-Tabarî in his extensive Tafseer of the Qur'ân, mentioned this Hadîth in his interpretation of the verse of Sûrat al-Baqarah "و لقد علموا لمن اشتراه ما له في الآخرة من خلاق" (102).
"خـلاق" here means "نصيـب" as Alaa and Moushira mentioned, but the verse from the Qur'an is referring to having no share in Paradise, or any thing that is good in the Hereafter. The Hadîth means "they have no share in Islâm or in religion" in general, in this worldly life, meaning they are not sincere Muslim, they do not do their deeds with good intention, purely for the sake of ALlâh, with no hypocritical tendencies, or personal hidden intentions, hence they are not rewarded for what they do. They may repent later, but at that time when they were supporting Islâm, (as we said above), they had other interests on their mind; still "unintentionally they supported Islâm and the Muslims."
1. In the first Hadith, reported by al-Bukhârî; as posted by Alaa and Moushira, the man was fighting with the Muslims, but he was actually one of the hypocrites (whose status is known in Islâm and there is a Sûrah in the Qur'ân called 'al-Munâfiqûn; the hypocrites), that is why the narrator said, ( رجل ممـن يدعي الإسلام) i.e. claiming to be a Muslim while he was not sincerely one). The man fought very bravely in the battle, but he was actually fighting to defend his own tribe, not to support the Muslims in their war with the disbelievers. When the man could not tolerate the pain and killed himself, the Companions were surprised for what he did; having seen how bravely he fought, yet he committed suicide. The Prophet then said to them, "إن الله ليؤيد هذا الدين بالرجل الفاجر."
A man could be immoral, dissolute, committing all sorts of major sins (that is why he is called a فاجر)… … like the man in this narration, but "Unintentionally he supported the Muslims in their fight with the disbelievers." So, it is by the will of Allâh that some people would do something in the favor of Islâm or defend the Muslims, but their intention is not always to support Islâm, it could be for their own personal reason, glory, fame, money etc.. and sometimes Islâm is supported by people who are not Muslims, but they are fair like the late German orientalist, very nice lady, 'Ann Marie Schimmel who excelled in Arabic and left great works about Islâm and the Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم.
The Prophet صلى الله عليه و سلم did not mean that we would go out of our way to use dissolute or immoral people to support Islâm, but they themselves would do it unintentionally; it is like 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'! Hope this is clear now.
2. The other Hadîth " بأقوام لا خلاق لهم " This was reported by Imâm Ahmad in his Musnad, with the wordings, " إن الله سيؤيد هذا الدين بأقوام لا خلاق لهم" It is also an authentic Hadîth (Sahih).
Imâm at-Tabarî in his extensive Tafseer of the Qur'ân, mentioned this Hadîth in his interpretation of the verse of Sûrat al-Baqarah "و لقد علموا لمن اشتراه ما له في الآخرة من خلاق" (102).
"خـلاق" here means "نصيـب" as Alaa and Moushira mentioned, but the verse from the Qur'an is referring to having no share in Paradise, or any thing that is good in the Hereafter. The Hadîth means "they have no share in Islâm or in religion" in general, in this worldly life, meaning they are not sincere Muslim, they do not do their deeds with good intention, purely for the sake of ALlâh, with no hypocritical tendencies, or personal hidden intentions, hence they are not rewarded for what they do. They may repent later, but at that time when they were supporting Islâm, (as we said above), they had other interests on their mind; still "unintentionally they supported Islâm and the Muslims."
Discussion