Aug 15, 2015 19:17
8 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
Sarah Banni
bêtes à faire pleurer un âne
French to English
Art/Literary
History
World War One
Hello, I am currently translating a text which refers to French soldier letters written during World War One. I have come across an extract from one of the letters for which I am struggling to find an English translation. The sentence refers to the interrogation of German soldiers (this is who 'Boches' in the following sentence refers to):
Les « Boches » qu’il interroge sont « bêtes à faire pleurer un âne »
I cannot seem to find any reference to 'bêtes à faire pleurer un âne' as a common idiom. I have seen 'bêtes à faire pleurer' meaning 'to be ridiculously stupid' and I am aware of the connotations of a donkey being stupid. However, I am not sure if I am missing something here/there is a hidden meaning or whether a translation along the lines of expressing stupidity is correct. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Les « Boches » qu’il interroge sont « bêtes à faire pleurer un âne »
I cannot seem to find any reference to 'bêtes à faire pleurer un âne' as a common idiom. I have seen 'bêtes à faire pleurer' meaning 'to be ridiculously stupid' and I am aware of the connotations of a donkey being stupid. However, I am not sure if I am missing something here/there is a hidden meaning or whether a translation along the lines of expressing stupidity is correct. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 2 +8 | so stupid even a donkey would despair |
Tony M
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| 5 | as thick as two short planks |
Alison Billington
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| 3 | as dumb as stumps |
Yolanda Broad
|
Proposed translations
+8
8 mins
French term (edited):
bête à faire pleurer un âne
Selected
so stupid even a donkey would despair
Yes, I'm pretty sure you have the right general idea, though you'll probably have to work a bit harder to actually fit it into your sentence.
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Note added at 1 heure (2015-08-15 20:46:02 GMT)
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'as thick as two short planks' might be a more idiomatic way of putting it — though not sure if this would work for the US?
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Note added at 1 heure (2015-08-15 20:48:47 GMT)
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An even more vernacular expression possibly appropriate for a WW I soldier to have used orally about a 'Boche' might be "as thick as shit" — though obviously the register is very vulgar, and so might be out of place in your document!
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Note added at 19 heures (2015-08-16 14:51:59 GMT)
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Charles's help with chronology is fascinating! My Dad was certainly using 'dim as a Toc-H lamp' when he was in the RAF between the wars (c. 1933), so that certainly ties in with Charles's comment.
As for 'thick as two short planks', I'm really astonished that the first recorded use of this should be as late as 1970. It was certainly used in our family long before that — as early as 1960 to my personal recollection; but I've always understood it to have originated in the days of building wooden boats, which would certainly take it back still further.
I'd be fascinated to find out more...
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Note added at 19 heures (2015-08-16 14:55:15 GMT)
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Ah now THIS looks interesting:
I may be as thick as two short planks but...where did this phrase ...
http://www.intelligentanswers.co.uk/index.php?topic=2621.0
Found this: -"During the first world war the British artillery guns had to be supported on two short planks of wood to stop them sinking into the ...
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Note added at 19 heures (2015-08-16 15:00:40 GMT)
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Ah well, other contributors rather dismissed that idea, but others have been suggested. All in all, the expression seems to have been around at least orally a lot longer than it seems to have appeared in print.
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Note added at 1 heure (2015-08-15 20:46:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
'as thick as two short planks' might be a more idiomatic way of putting it — though not sure if this would work for the US?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 heure (2015-08-15 20:48:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
An even more vernacular expression possibly appropriate for a WW I soldier to have used orally about a 'Boche' might be "as thick as shit" — though obviously the register is very vulgar, and so might be out of place in your document!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 heures (2015-08-16 14:51:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Charles's help with chronology is fascinating! My Dad was certainly using 'dim as a Toc-H lamp' when he was in the RAF between the wars (c. 1933), so that certainly ties in with Charles's comment.
As for 'thick as two short planks', I'm really astonished that the first recorded use of this should be as late as 1970. It was certainly used in our family long before that — as early as 1960 to my personal recollection; but I've always understood it to have originated in the days of building wooden boats, which would certainly take it back still further.
I'd be fascinated to find out more...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 heures (2015-08-16 14:55:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Ah now THIS looks interesting:
I may be as thick as two short planks but...where did this phrase ...
http://www.intelligentanswers.co.uk/index.php?topic=2621.0
Found this: -"During the first world war the British artillery guns had to be supported on two short planks of wood to stop them sinking into the ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 heures (2015-08-16 15:00:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Ah well, other contributors rather dismissed that idea, but others have been suggested. All in all, the expression seems to have been around at least orally a lot longer than it seems to have appeared in print.
Note from asker:
| Hi Tony, thank you very much for your suggestions, and everyone else who has agreed and commented. I think an idiomatic expression would work appropriately here and so I'll do a little more research into the correct time periods. Definitely food for thought! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
patrickfor
: I wouldn't say anything better (if I only could!). It's exactly the idea behind.
/ Yep and that's good. It's french soldiers so I like your idea.
BTW it reminds me of when I said "Let's call a cat" to my Br Friends. it might be popular in Kent by now
1 hr
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Merci, Patrick ! It's not an actual EN idiom, but at least it conveys the idea; in a text intended to be understood as a translation, it could sound 'quaintly foreign but comprehsnible' / ;-)
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| agree |
Yolanda Broad
: "as thick as shit"
1 hr
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Thanks, Yolanda!
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| agree |
B D Finch
: Even "as thick as pigshit".
1 hr
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Thanks, B! :-)
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| agree |
Shabelula
2 hrs
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Thanks, Shabelula!
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| agree |
Jennifer White
: Yes - and ever heard of "Dim as a Toc-H lamp"?
14 hrs
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Thanks, jennifer! Oh yes, that was a favourite of my Dad's — and so about the right period, too.
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| agree |
Charles Davis
: I like this. "As thick as two short planks" is idiomatic (UK at least), but rather later. "Dim as a Toc-H lamp" is bang on the right period: Toc H dates from 1915. // "D as a THL" already in use 1916-17, says Partridge. T as TSP first recorded 1970.
15 hrs
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Thanks, Charles! In fact, I think '2 short planks' might pre-date that; if TocH was only 1915, it might have been a bit soon for the expression to have slipped into everyday slang? I do remember my Dad using it a lot.
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| agree |
erwan-l
: Brilliant :)!
17 hrs
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Merci, Erwan !
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| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Even though the French can be translated" here, I think a recognised chronologically appropriate expression is a better idea. "As thick as two short planks". // "Dumb as an ox"?
19 hrs
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Thanks, Nikki! I still have some qualms about using 'dumb' in EN-GB.
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3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Hi Tony, thank you very much for your suggestions, and everyone else who has agreed and commented. I think an idiomatic expression would work appropriately here and so I'll do a little more research into the correct time periods. Definitely food for thought!"
1 hr
Yolanda Broad
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Fren & Span to Eng, a ProZ Pro!
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English
as dumb as stumps
You need something that is alliterative, widespread, and non-period specific.
"as Dumb as stumps" has been around a long time and is pretty universal.
I have seen "as dumb as doorknobs" but I am not sure it is used outside of the US.
"as dumb as (fence)posts" gets a lot of use, and has a nice folksy ring to it that makes up for the lack of alliteration.
Google comes up with a whole lots of hits for "as dumb as (a box/bag of) rocks." I am not sure why that one is so popular, since it does not have the alliteration that one would expect in a standard comparison.
"as Dumb as stumps" has been around a long time and is pretty universal.
I have seen "as dumb as doorknobs" but I am not sure it is used outside of the US.
"as dumb as (fence)posts" gets a lot of use, and has a nice folksy ring to it that makes up for the lack of alliteration.
Google comes up with a whole lots of hits for "as dumb as (a box/bag of) rocks." I am not sure why that one is so popular, since it does not have the alliteration that one would expect in a standard comparison.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: Well, I have to admit I've never personally heard this one in GB. Rarely, in fact 'dumb' used for 'stupid', which at least until recently always had a US ring to it this side of the Pond.
1 min
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I checked for "they're as stupid as" and didn't come up with anything particularly generalized. I can't, of course, speak for what happens over yonder on the other side. Is "dumb" really not used over your way?
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| neutral |
B D Finch
: I too have never heard that one and agree with Tony's impression of "dumb" as US, not UK. It also may be considered objectionable in the UK as stigmatising disability.
20 mins
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15 hrs
Alison Billington
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
Translator of French to English
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: French to English, English, French
as thick as two short planks
I believe this is the idiom you are looking for!
It means someone exceptionally stupid or thick.
It means someone exceptionally stupid or thick.
Discussion
Some sort of "stupidity squared"
and apologies to our german friends, war is always a bad time.