| Páginas no tópico: < [1 2 3] | Advice on living with someone learning a first foreign language Tópico cartaz: IPtranslate (X)
|
|---|
wonita (X)
China
Local time: 23:12
| Only from the linguistic perspective, | Apr 12, 2011 |
Veronica Lupascu wrote:
I think at least one native language should be spoken in a relationship.
to ensure the language quality. On the other hand, when it comes to argument or dispute, neither should be in a disadvantageous position due to the language barrier.
| | | | Nicole Schnell 
Estados Unidos
Local time: 20:12
inglês para alemão
+ ...
In memoriam | Extremely important, indeed | Apr 12, 2011 |
Bin Tiede wrote:
when it comes to argument or dispute, neither should be in a disadvantageous position due to the language barrier.
And I am not talking about any screaming or yelling.
| | | | Allison Wright (X)
Portugal
Local time: 04:12
| You do not need to help teach | Apr 12, 2011 |
I identified with two things:
1. Your "relationship language" is Portuguese. It probably always will be. To make it another language possibly feels "false" to your partner. It might improve his English, but it will not improve your relationship.
2. Your partner is capable of learning English without you. Advice given to let him "take the lead" is good.
Our home language is English. When we arrived in Portugal my (Portuguese-speaking) partner was too embarra... See more I identified with two things:
1. Your "relationship language" is Portuguese. It probably always will be. To make it another language possibly feels "false" to your partner. It might improve his English, but it will not improve your relationship.
2. Your partner is capable of learning English without you. Advice given to let him "take the lead" is good.
Our home language is English. When we arrived in Portugal my (Portuguese-speaking) partner was too embarrassed by her Moçambican accent to speak Portuguese! I knew no Portuguese upon arrival! I can honestly say that I received no assistance whatsoever in learning the language at home.
But, I did have to organise our lives, get a job, do shopping in non-supermarket situations, understand what the bank and tax department wanted, find an apartment, negotiate the lease, and integrate into village life. I insisted on doing this all in broken Portuguese (even though I detest grammatical errors in principle), and was fortunate because the people I have encountered have been and kind - indulgent even, (and also were not quite sure if I was English or not, so never tried their English on me initially). Even though I am a linguist, I am still not 100% fluent in Portuguese (by which I mean I cannot say exactly and precisely what is on my mind - or be sure that I have said it without giving offence), and I do not always understand what people are saying when talking in a group. All this has taken two and a half years (including night school)- which is a lot longer than I anticipated. Now, I do not panic when the phone rings, or when anything happens for that matter. I am the "talker" in Portuguese when we go out. And, because I am banned from reading out aloud in Portuguese to my partner, I have become quite an able off-the-cuff Pt-En translator!
The place of refuge, the "comfort zone" of the relationship, remains 95% English. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Elizabeth Faracini
Estados Unidos
Local time: 23:12
Membro (2010)
italiano para inglês
+ ...
SBlack wrote:
Resist the urge to finish sentences for him and refuse to become his translator, for example at restaurants. Stand patiently and silently while he orders his hamburger and fries, no matter how long it takes. That's how he will learn.
Being surrounded 24/7 by a low buzz of incomprehensible speech is mentally and emotionally trying - home is a refuge.
[Edited at 2011-04-12 09:33 GMT]
I agree with these two comments. My husband is Brazilian and I am American, and we met speaking Italian. He didn't speak English at all when we met. When he began learning English (from me and a book), we used to set times to speak English, for example for an hour. Then we would go back to Italian. I think it is quite difficult to just make the switch from one day to the next, but making gradual attempts to speak English will most likely improve his comfort with the language.
He might also try watching TV shows that do not have complicated story lines, which are easier to understand. This could help him to get used to the cadence of English and increase his understanding, which will hopefully also help with overall communication.
Good luck!
Liz
| | |
|
|
|
| Get drunk with friends | Apr 14, 2011 |
This works in multiple ways:
- The presence of your friends will keep the standard language on English
- The thoughts get simpler
- The speech gets simpler
- Nobody cares for errors anymore
At the point where I was able to understand most of the newspaper content but could not yet talk freely, this helped a lot to turn my passive knowledge into an active skill. It worked for me after 6 months French, and again after 6 months Portuguese.
Fluency c... See more This works in multiple ways:
- The presence of your friends will keep the standard language on English
- The thoughts get simpler
- The speech gets simpler
- Nobody cares for errors anymore
At the point where I was able to understand most of the newspaper content but could not yet talk freely, this helped a lot to turn my passive knowledge into an active skill. It worked for me after 6 months French, and again after 6 months Portuguese.
Fluency comes from the guts, not from the brain. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Holly Nathan (X)
Itália
Local time: 05:12
italiano para inglês
It will take years for him to learn English. It takes years to learn any foreign language. I am not sure that ordering a man to speak only in English will do much good for the relationship, to be honest! There will be many times when he is tired at the end of the day or frustrated and just wants/needs to say something to you in his own language. I think it is is rather mean if you wag your finger at him in those moments and say"Only English please".
If he gets out,makes his own friends a... See more It will take years for him to learn English. It takes years to learn any foreign language. I am not sure that ordering a man to speak only in English will do much good for the relationship, to be honest! There will be many times when he is tired at the end of the day or frustrated and just wants/needs to say something to you in his own language. I think it is is rather mean if you wag your finger at him in those moments and say"Only English please".
If he gets out,makes his own friends and has the chance to go down the pub/play football with them (and without you there!) then his spoken English will improve. I live in Italy and know quite a few English people who have picked up good Italian down the pub The language course should help him get to grips with the grammar - hopefully.
Then he will return all confident in his new skills and able to talk to you about eastenders until the cows come home ▲ Collapse
| | | | Holly Nathan (X)
Itália
Local time: 05:12
italiano para inglês
| I like that! | Apr 14, 2011 |
Harry Bornemann wrote:
Fluency comes from the guts, not from the brain.
Just read this post. You are completely right Harry
| | | | | I think you're being incredibly harsh on him. | Jun 4, 2011 |
We are all linguists here, learning languages is what we are good at. You grew up bilingual (I assume) which would have been a great advantage in learning future languages, and he does not have that. The points about a 'relationship language' and concerning the fact that it will damage his self-esteem if he suddenly is unable to express himself are completely valid. If you force him into a faster pace than he feels he is capable of and belittle his (in my opinion, perfectly adequate) attempts to... See more We are all linguists here, learning languages is what we are good at. You grew up bilingual (I assume) which would have been a great advantage in learning future languages, and he does not have that. The points about a 'relationship language' and concerning the fact that it will damage his self-esteem if he suddenly is unable to express himself are completely valid. If you force him into a faster pace than he feels he is capable of and belittle his (in my opinion, perfectly adequate) attempts to learn the language, he will resent you for it. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| When worlds and languages collide! | Jun 5, 2011 |
The problem you relate is one that I have often been familiar with !
As a language teacher I am used to withstanding high levels of abuse to various languages and my problem is more that of switching to a different language myself in the context of intimity or friendship! I find it extremely difficult to change the language in which I speak with those who are close to me. Speaking in English with my Italian friends is deeply painful - mostly because I feel I no longer am myself or the sel... See more The problem you relate is one that I have often been familiar with !
As a language teacher I am used to withstanding high levels of abuse to various languages and my problem is more that of switching to a different language myself in the context of intimity or friendship! I find it extremely difficult to change the language in which I speak with those who are close to me. Speaking in English with my Italian friends is deeply painful - mostly because I feel I no longer am myself or the self I am to them as I switch language.
It is very much a Pirandellian problem: I am probably not quite the same person depending on which language I speak, let alone who I speak with...
I would suggest that you develop an intense social life and spend lots of time together speaking in English with others... eventually it will become easier! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Neil Coffey
Reino Unido
Local time: 04:12
francês para inglês
+ ...
| Don't panic; assess your goals | Jun 5, 2011 |
xxxIPtranslate wrote:
The thing is that I (and I think the problem lies with me, not with him) don't seem to notice this progress.
I feel that he still makes the same (beginner's) mistakes he made three months ago, and have the impression that he doesn't want to put in an effort because he refuses to speak EN to me, whereas I have caught him speaking EN (admittedly simple English, but English nevertheless) with other people.
Firstly, I think you should separate out the last issue which is arguably a social one rather than a linguistic one. If you've started a relationship in a particular language, then changing language is in a sense "changing the relationship" and your partner may be uncomfortable about doing that or feel it unnatural.
Then, the thing that is going to matter to you is that your partner reaches a point where he can join in socially with other people that you invite round for dinner and be fluent enough to speak and understand in day-to-day situations (ordering at a restaurant, asking in the post office about the procedure to post a package to Brazil, dealing with Sky TV ringing up to ask if you want to upgrade your package etc...). Unless he's planning to get a job writing in English for a living, overall fluency of understanding and communication will be far more important than trading in fluency for avoiding a few "beginners' mistakes". So I think over the coming months, you need to try and assess how his English is improving in terms of these end goals.
On the other hand, if *he* feels that he's not getting much out of the course and you have time to teach him (and you don't feel it will be too false a situation), then you could always save yourselves some money. I don't know what type of course it is exactly he's taking, but you might want to consider whether the agenda of the course in question fits in with your particular goals. "Learning when to use the preterite vs present perfect in an essay" may be part of the staple diet of a TEFL course but may not be so relevant to the goal of "interacting with friends at dinner"...
| | | | | Páginas no tópico: < [1 2 3] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Advice on living with someone learning a first foreign language | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
| | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
