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本次翻译竞赛讨论 থ্রেড পোস্টার: Jinhang Wang
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Jinhang Wang 
চীন
Local time: 13:48
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TOPIC STARTER
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
试译： “没人再去那里了。那里太拥挤了。”
解释：这句话在Proz的英文说明中比较公认的解释是：
It's [supposedly] funny because on the surface both propositions can't be true. If nobody goes there anymore, it wouldn't be crowded. Of course it isn't meant literally.
如果没人再去那里，那里就不会再拥挤了。
若果原话改写为："Nobody will go there anymore. It's been too crowded."，这句话就没问题了。
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Phil Hand
চীন
Local time: 13:48
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那句话可以从不同的社会群体来分析：原来只有少数（有钱）人认识某个好地方，后来被大家发现了，现在成为受大众欢迎的热门地点，所以：（在我的社群中）没有人去那里了，人太多了。因为括号中的部分被省略了，表面上形成一个悖论。
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Jinhang Wang
চীন
Local time: 13:48
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TOPIC STARTER
在没有太多上下文背景可参考的情况下，只能采用通常的理解了，呵呵。
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wherestip
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র
Local time: 00:48
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J.H.,
My opinion is those who understand what Yogi Berra was talking about don't really need a discussion on any of his quotes. Those who have trouble understanding them most likely will remain so no matter how much discussion takes place.
That's probably why the participation is lackluster. 
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Jinhang Wang
চীন
Local time: 13:48
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TOPIC STARTER
wherestip wrote:
J.H.,
My opinion is those who understand what Yogi Berra was talking about don't really need a discussion on any of his quotes. Those who have trouble understanding them most likely will remain so no matter how much discussion takes place.
That's probably why the participation is lackluster.
Hi wherestip，
我很是同意你的看法，事实上，我已经颇遗憾地认识到了这一点。不过，我觉得不能很好地理解 Yogi Berra 语录的人似乎颇为不少，觉得自己有必要勉为其难地给出自己的解释，以供有缘人批评参考。
另外，也算当做一种娱乐啦，呵呵。
[Edited at 2012-11-24 14:14 GMT]
[Edited at 2012-11-24 14:28 GMT]
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wherestip
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র
Local time: 00:48
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J.H. Wang wrote:
不过，我觉得不能很好地理解 Yogi Berra 语录的人似乎颇为不少，觉得自己有必要勉为其难地给出自己的解释，以供有缘人批评参考。
Yes, indeed. As always, understanding a text and the background of that text is foremost. Rendering should come organically.
A bad translation most of the time is a result of poor understanding of the source text and culture.
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Jinhang Wang
চীন
Local time: 13:48
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TOPIC STARTER
"I can't concentrate when I'm thinking."
试译：“我在思考时无法专心。”
解释：在Proz上比较公认的英文解释有：
This doesn't make sense because the whole point of concentrating is to improve one's thinking - just the opposite of what this hillarious sentence is implying.
以及
It's [definitely] humorous because [usually] when you concentrate, you ARE thinking... but concentrating on the ball at sports ... See more "I can't concentrate when I'm thinking."
试译：“我在思考时无法专心。”
解释：在Proz上比较公认的英文解释有：
This doesn't make sense because the whole point of concentrating is to improve one's thinking - just the opposite of what this hillarious sentence is implying.
以及
It's [definitely] humorous because [usually] when you concentrate, you ARE thinking... but concentrating on the ball at sports does not imply you are necessarily thinking. There is a common missing element to all the source quotes: CONTEXT. It is key to k
思考本身就是一件专心的事情，所以思考时必定是在专心。 ▲ Collapse
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Jinhang Wang
চীন
Local time: 13:48
ইংরেজি থেকে চাইনিজ/চিনা
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TOPIC STARTER
"The future ain't what it used to be."
试译：“未来不是它过去的样子。”
解释：这句话虽然看起来简单，不过，在这次参赛的英译中译者中正确理解的似乎寥寥无几。
在Porz 上的比较公认的英文说明如下：
Incongruity created by referring to the future using a past tense/construction. There's also some ambiguity by what is meant as "the future", is it "the way we think about the future. ... See more "The future ain't what it used to be."
试译：“未来不是它过去的样子。”
解释：这句话虽然看起来简单，不过，在这次参赛的英译中译者中正确理解的似乎寥寥无几。
在Porz 上的比较公认的英文说明如下：
Incongruity created by referring to the future using a past tense/construction. There's also some ambiguity by what is meant as "the future", is it "the way we think about the future. The perception of the future is not as it once was.
未来是指尚未到来，所以它根本没有过去。what it used to be = what the future used to be，是根本矛盾的。
为了说明这句话的荒谬性，不妨举个例子。
现在是 2012 年，那么如果我们说：2015年不是它过去的样子。大家一定会感觉到好笑吧。因为，2015年尚未到来，更谈不上有过去了。
其实，这次Yogi Berra的语录中很多都涉及逻辑矛盾问题，只有从逻辑的角度理解，才能原原本本地理解和翻译。 ▲ Collapse
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Phil Hand
চীন
Local time: 13:48
চাইনিজ/চিনা থেকে ইংরেজি
很多Yogiism都是这个形式：拿一个固定说法（相当于成语），把它放在一个幽默的语境，使它字面的意思和整体的意思发生碰撞。
比如说：某某ain't worth a dime any more - 意思是某某东西已经没有价值了，这个成语的意思已经跟十美分没有直接关系，但是Yogi说 A nickel ain't worth a dime any more，因为提及五美分的硬币，让读者重新“发现”成语中的dime。
另如：某某ain... See more 很多Yogiism都是这个形式：拿一个固定说法（相当于成语），把它放在一个幽默的语境，使它字面的意思和整体的意思发生碰撞。
比如说：某某ain't worth a dime any more - 意思是某某东西已经没有价值了，这个成语的意思已经跟十美分没有直接关系，但是Yogi说 A nickel ain't worth a dime any more，因为提及五美分的硬币，让读者重新“发现”成语中的dime。
另如：某某ain't what it used to be，意思是某某东西不如其以前的样子，比如说New York ain't what it used to be：唉！纽约堕落了！这个成语用来修饰the future就形成一种奇特的语言碰撞，因为the future从表面看不可能used to be，因为the future不可能是过去的。
又如：I can't concentrate when... 也算是一个固定或常见的词组，但与I'm thinking 配起来就变得荒滩了。
14条语录中大概有十条是这么形成的，从它背后的成语开始理解它就对了。 ▲ Collapse
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wherestip
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র
Local time: 00:48
চাইনিজ/চিনা থেকে ইংরেজি
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Phil Hand wrote:
很多Yogiism都是这个形式：拿一个固定说法（相当于成语），把它放在一个幽默的语境，使它字面的意思和整体的意思发生碰撞。
比如说：某某ain't worth a dime any more - 意思是某某东西已经没有价值了，这个成语的意思已经跟十美分没有直接关系，但是Yogi说 A nickel ain't worth a dime any more，因为提及五美分的硬币，让读者重新“发现”成语中的dime。
另如：某某ain't what it used to be，意思是某某东西不如其以前的样子，比如说New York ain't what it used to be：唉！纽约堕落了！这个成语用来修饰the future就形成一种奇特的语言碰撞，因为the future从表面看不可能used to be，因为the future不可能是过去的。
又如：I can't concentrate when... 也算是一个固定或常见的词组，但与I'm thinking 配起来就变得荒滩了。
14条语录中大概有十条是这么形成的，从它背后的成语开始理解它就对了。
Indeed. A lot of his funny quotes are only humorous (or ridiculous) because of his frequent use of idioms. Very often the idioms are in conflict or are redundant in juxtaposition with the rest of his sentence, whether intentionally or accidentally.
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Jinhang Wang
চীন
Local time: 13:48
ইংরেজি থেকে চাইনিজ/চিনা
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TOPIC STARTER
Phil Hand wrote:
很多Yogiism都是这个形式：拿一个固定说法（相当于成语），把它放在一个幽默的语境，使它字面的意思和整体的意思发生碰撞。
比如说：某某ain't worth a dime any more - 意思是某某东西已经没有价值了，这个成语的意思已经跟十美分没有直接关系，但是Yogi说 A nickel ain't worth a dime any more，因为提及五美分的硬币，让读者重新“发现”成语中的dime。
另如：某某ain't what it used to be，意思是某某东西不如其以前的样子，比如说New York ain't what it used to be：唉！纽约堕落了！这个成语用来修饰the future就形成一种奇特的语言碰撞，因为the future从表面看不可能used to be，因为the future不可能是过去的。
又如：I can't concentrate when... 也算是一个固定或常见的词组，但与I'm thinking 配起来就变得荒滩了。
14条语录中大概有十条是这么形成的，从它背后的成语开始理解它就对了。
没错，就像理发师悖论一样：
某理发师发誓“要给所有不自已理发的人理发，不给所有自己理发的人理发”，现在的问题是“谁为该理发师理发？”。首先，若理发师给自己理发，那他就是一个“自己理发的人”，依其誓言“他不给自己理发”；其次，若“他不给自己理发”，依其誓言，他就必须“给自己理发”。
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wherestip
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র
Local time: 00:48
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| Behind the seemingly inane sayings | Nov 25, 2012 |
... there's almost always a reason Yogi said what he said at the time. That's the reason why given the proper context and the correct interpretation of the idiom he used, some of what he said are considered memorable quotes, or even words of wisdom in the American culture.
Dolly Parton has some famous quotes of this nature too. She once joked about her own appearance, "You know, it takes a lot of money to look this cheap!".  ... See more ... there's almost always a reason Yogi said what he said at the time. That's the reason why given the proper context and the correct interpretation of the idiom he used, some of what he said are considered memorable quotes, or even words of wisdom in the American culture.
Dolly Parton has some famous quotes of this nature too. She once joked about her own appearance, "You know, it takes a lot of money to look this cheap!".  ▲ Collapse
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Jinhang Wang
চীন
Local time: 13:48
ইংরেজি থেকে চাইনিজ/চিনা
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TOPIC STARTER
"We're lost, but we're making good time."
试译：“我们迷路了，但我们在快速前进。”
解释：在 Proz 的英文说明中比较公认的说法是：
"Making good time" on a journey is when you are on/ahead of schedule.
You can't "make good time" on a journey when you're lost, as you can't know when you will reach your destination nor if you will be on/ahead of schedule.
以及
The meaning is very similar to... See more "We're lost, but we're making good time."
试译：“我们迷路了，但我们在快速前进。”
解释：在 Proz 的英文说明中比较公认的说法是：
"Making good time" on a journey is when you are on/ahead of schedule.
You can't "make good time" on a journey when you're lost, as you can't know when you will reach your destination nor if you will be on/ahead of schedule.
以及
The meaning is very similar to "going nowhere fast." Speed doesn't mean much if you are not progressing towards your destination.
对于 make good time 的含义：
根据
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/make%20good%20time
http://idioms.yourdictionary.com/make-good-time
中的解释，我们可以看出，这里是“快速前进”的意思。
迷路而快速前进毫无意义。事实上，迷路时是无法做到快速前进的，因为你不知道方向，不知道目标在哪里，你怎么知道是在前进呢。又一个悖论。类似于中国的南辕北辙。 ▲ Collapse
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ysun
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র
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| Congratulations to Melody Liang for winning the contest! | Nov 26, 2012 |
Phil Hand wrote:
James你总是往好的一面看
James_xia wrote:
因前段时间有些杂事处理，很遗憾没得闲抽时间参与这次翻译赛事的投票活动。尽管这次比赛为热身目的，原文初读之下似很简单，但在理解和表达上各位参赛者一定花费了不少功夫来仔细体会字里行间的弦外之音。
[Edited at 2012-11-17 14:41 GMT]
我就愿意扮演坏人的角色，因为有些话是不得不说的。Melody的好几句译文完全没有掌握原文的意思，但我们绝大部分的同行为之投票，这现象已经够可怜的，如果广大中英译者不愿意利用这个机会多学学点东西，那就要为我们行业放弃一切希望。
缺乏对外国文化的理解是可弥补的；坚持现有的水平不需要提高是致命的。
James,
I totally agree with you! I didn't cast my vote, either. I think the discussion of the contest entries will certainly be beneficial to everyone of us. However, I don’t think the legitimacy of a win should be questioned publicly in this forum, based on my understanding of the contest rule #6. Your attention to this matter would be highly appreciated!
http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=Contest%20Rules
6. The legitimacy of a win should not be questioned publicly. If unfairness is suspected, it should be reported to site staff members via a support request.
Phil Hand wrote:
这次竞赛投票趋势。。。
令我失望。Melody的好几个译句都加了括号中的解释，首先加以解释这个做法已经不是纯翻译，那么多翻译同行为之投票令人奇怪；第二，从括号中的解释来看，对原文的理解不是很清晰。这次活动增加了“讨论原句”的功能，其实你只要看对原文的讨论就可以得到很准确的理解，但可惜的是我们英译中的同行似乎没有做这方面的研究和理解工作。
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ysun
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Local time: 00:48
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