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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

sous couvert hiérarchique

English translation:

under line management supervision

Added to glossary by ph-b (X)
Aug 29, 2023 11:32
9 mos ago
37 viewers *
French term

sous couvert hiérarchique

French to English Bus/Financial Human Resources job description
In this job description we have a list of the responsibilities of a "pre-sales lead designer".
These include:
- Garant de l'exactitude des plans et des données techniques (sous couvert hiérarchique)

what do they mean here by couvert hiérarchique?

A search here produced "chain of command" but I'm not sure about that in the context.


any suggestions? thanks!
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 under line management supervision
3 as per the line management structure
3 management oversight required
3 -1 under the hierarchical authority
Change log

Aug 30, 2023 16:29: ph-b (X) Created KOG entry

Discussion

Alexandra Speirs (asker) Aug 29, 2023:
yes yes, it is a job description for that company!
ph-b (X) Aug 29, 2023:
Is your text similar to https://www.sidel.com/fr/a-propos-de-sidel/carrieres/manufac... ?

If so, my native speaker's gut feeling is that the accuracy of the technician or the engineer's work is vetted/confirmed by whoever is above them. Unless of course our Canadian colleagues have a different explanation.
ph-b (X) Aug 29, 2023:
Emmanuella, What do you think "there is no indication of that in the source text as supplied, and so could be overtranslation" means? :-)
Emmanuella Aug 29, 2023:
@ph-b Transmis sous couvert hierarchique est un cas à part qui concerne l'Administration.
Alexandra Speirs (asker) Aug 29, 2023:
thanks for all the suggestions I think we have a good idea now, so if one of you would like to put a suitable answer I can award the points!
ph-b (X) Aug 29, 2023:
Sous couvert hiérarchique Means "under the authority of" (see my post above) - native translators will find the right translation in this context.

The meaning can possibly be extended to transmis sous couvert hiérarchique, i.e. sent/supplied to someone through the sender's/supplier's line manager, implying that they checked it and took responsibility for it. Cf. the French postal abbreviation s/c (sous couvert) , but there is no indication of that in the source text as supplied, and so could be overtranslation unless your client confirms otherwise.
Daryo Aug 29, 2023:
Still, what is it supposed to mean exactly? IOW, what are the practical implications in this ST?

If "sous couvert hiérarchique" is suppose to mean that there is in the company's hierarchy someone above this "pre-sales lead designer", then it sounds to me like a pointless statement of the blindingly obvious - une lapalissade.

Problem is, you don't get "statements of the blindingly obvious" in well written texts.

It **might be** a reference to who is ultimately responsible for being "garant de l'exactitude des plans et des données techniques" - then is would make sense to mention "sous couvert hiérarchique" - that would add some real information.

AS for CNTRL - Centre National de Ressources Textuelles et Lexicales - cnrtl.fr it's simply the best resource you can find for the French language.
ph-b (X) Aug 29, 2023:
philgoddard, What I meant is that the meaning of sous couvert is straightforward. No educated native speaker would have the slightest doubt about what it means in this particular context, referred to in the intro to my quote (Le compl. de la loc. désigne une pers. servant de garantie, qui assume officiellement une responsabilité). Once you know that, figuring out what sous couvert hiérarchique means shouldn't be too hard and native translators should have no problem translating it.

Just realised I forgot to quote the link. I suppose everyone will have recognised CNRTL.
Emmanuella Aug 29, 2023:
https://www.wordreference.com/fren/sous couvert de
Alexandra Speirs (asker) Aug 29, 2023:
sous / according to so according to or even following the chain of command?
that is each referring to their immediate superior?
philgoddard Aug 29, 2023:
I don't think it's straightforward.
It's defined in the first few Google hits, but I'm not sure how to translate it.
ph-b (X) Aug 29, 2023:
"sous couvert de". Straightforward. b) Sous le couvert de (fig.).
− [Le compl. de la loc. désigne une pers. servant de garantie, qui assume officiellement une responsabilité à la place d'une autre] Sous la caution de.

R&C suggests "behind the authority of", "through the person of". Perhaps not applicable here, but the idea is you're doing something under someone else's authority and with their blessing.
Conor McAuley Aug 29, 2023:
Plenty of hits for ""sous couvert de la voie hiérarchique" anyway.

Personally I find "chain of command" to be military, I would prefer something like "line managers".

But the crux of the matter is "sous" anyway, so I'm not going to post an answer...at least not just yet.
Emmanuella Aug 29, 2023:
Est-on obligé de traduire 'sous' ? Trouver qqch du genre ' under the responsibility of ...'
Conor McAuley Aug 29, 2023:
How to translate "sous" though Emmanuella? Subject to? Nothwithstanding?
Emmanuella Aug 29, 2023:
C'est bien l'idée cf.
https://www.organimi.com/the-chain-of-command-why-its-import...

Proposed translations

+1
8 hrs
Selected

under line management supervision


See discussion. I understand that someone produces work under the supervision of their line manager.

Job profile - Coventry University
Coventry University
https://staffrecruitment.coventry.ac.uk › ...
Under line management supervision and guidance, this post-holder will contribute to research, evaluation and applied activity on the cultural and creative ...

Seven Resourcing
https://www.seven-resourcing.com › ...
Under line management supervision, maintain an imprest account i.e. deposit and withdraw money from the petty cash tin for officers as required and to ...


REGISTRATION DOCUMENT AND FULL-YEAR ...
Amazon Web Services
https://ungc-production.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com › ...
10 oct. 2014 — Self-checking by operational departments under line management supervision, or controls by functional or line management authority.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 2 hrs (2023-08-30 13:59:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


Les exemples en anglais britannique ci-dessus ont été affichés avant de savoir qu'il s'agissait d'un texte canadien (voir ma question dans la discussion).

Le sens reste le même, mais vérifier avec le client si la formulation doit être adaptée pour un public/usage canadien.
Peer comment(s):
agree Daryo
1 day 13 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks, this is the most suitable for my context"
-1
2 hrs

under the hierarchical authority

"his/her superior (according to ranking authority)

so depending on what rank the employee is, their superior as a higher ranking authority could be

foreperson, supervisor, line manager, manager, general manager, director, owner

so, whoever is higher than them in the pecking order!

"hierarchy" basicaly means ranking order here (of authority)."


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2023-08-29 14:09:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english/law-contracts/6831637-hie...
Note from asker:
thanks
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : The reference only backs the existence of the English phrase, not the accuracy of the translation
35 mins
What about "under the hierarchical oversight"?
disagree Daryo : The meaning of "hierarchy / hierarchical" is not the question // the problem is in what "sous couvert hiérarchique" is exactly meant to mean in this ST.
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

as per the line management structure

chain of command connotes a military or buck-passing context.

hiérarchie : structure, FHS Bridge
Example sentence:

Line organizational structure is one of the simplest types of organizational structures. Its authority flows from top to bottom.

Reference:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/management/37386-hierarchique.html

http://www.proz.com/personal-glossaries/entry/15788962-line-management-encadrement-hiérarchique-opérationnel-responsables-opérationnels

Note from asker:
thanks
Peer comment(s):
neutral Emmanuella : Non, cf. Le dictionnaire 'Word reference ' cf. link dans la discussion box
8 mins
Something went wrong...
21 hrs

management oversight required

Note from asker:
thanks
Something went wrong...
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