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mixer
Entreprise d'insertion
Jun 13, 2015 10:47
8 yrs ago
French term

coût spécifique moyen de revient du produit

French to English Bus/Financial Business/Commerce (general) fuel oil prices
This is from a section dealing with the calculation of fuel prices in a public tender.
My problem is this: "specific average cost price of the product" doesn't sound right to me.
Either a price is specific or it is an average; how can it be both at the same time?
Or am I missing something?

Here is the surrounding text:

D = différentiel, qui correspond à l'écart entre le prix initial du produit et le coût spécifique moyen de revient du produit en métropole pour le titulaire. Le différentiel D, exprimé en €/m3 hors taxes, peut être positif, négatif ou nul.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 product specific average production cost / revenue cost
1 +3 average specific cost price of the product
3 product mean specific cost price
3 -1 fixed cost of revenue of the product
References
coût spécifique

Discussion

Daryo Jun 13, 2015:
even if grammatically the whole of "coût spécifique moyen de revient du produit"

could be parsed in more than one way, the logic of economics dictates that the price at which a product is sold has to be compared to the total costs to get that product ready for sale.

The product being "navigational diesel" where the cost of the input varies from one shipment of crude oil to another, the "average" ought the average as in the AVCO inventory valuation method;

Applying the same logic "specific" ought to be applied to the product - i.e what is relevant is to the cost of "navigational diesel", not some undifferentiated cost reflecting the production costs etc for all types of diesel considered together.
Verginia Ophof Jun 13, 2015:
don't worry about the debates...... we are all here to help YOU !!
AllegroTrans (asker) Jun 13, 2015:
Thanks for all contributions thus far I knew this one would generate some debate!
Daryo Jun 13, 2015:
Cost of goods sold is the technical term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_goods_sold or "cost of revenue" to include even marketing costs;

this being a contract, including informal language is usually not the best of ideas.
Tony M Jun 13, 2015:
@ Daryo In EN, we do not always maintain the same difference in usage between 'cost' and 'price' as in FR — there are very many instance in EN where we use 'price' where FR uses 'cost'.

'prix de revient' is a very common one: although other technical terms do exist, the commonest rendering of this is 'cost price' — one would be hard pressed to say 'cost cost'!
Daryo Jun 13, 2015:
price? "price" implies selling - the price is what the client is asked to pay. OTOH in:

coût spécifique moyen de revient du produit

there is only mention of what it cost to get the product ready for sale

which agrees with:

D = différentiel, qui correspond à l'écart entre le prix initial du produit et le coût spécifique moyen de revient du produit en métropole pour le titulaire.
AllegroTrans (asker) Jun 13, 2015:
@ Tony the product is navigational diesel fuel
Tony M Jun 13, 2015:
@ Asker I think you're getting tied up with this 'wrong' meaning of 'specific'.

What you haven't told us is what the 'produuct' is? Is this retail (heating oil, etc.) — or are we talking here about crude prices?

Remember, certain fuels may be priced not by volume, but by heating capacity (remember how UK gas bills always used to state the calorific value of the gas you were paying for?) — so it is even possible that the pricing is in units not directly related to the actual quantity of product supplied. hence in this instance 'average' might make more sense — and if your source text doesn't specify the averaging period, then you don't really need to worry your head about it, do you?
AllegroTrans (asker) Jun 13, 2015:
Thinking.... average of a series of specific prices (i.e. over time)? that would make sense, but it is seems vague because nowhere does it specify over what period. See my problem?
Charles Davis Jun 13, 2015:
@Tony Sorry, I don't know whether your answer was there when I posted this, but in any case I didn't see it.

You could well be right about "specific". Maybe it means that the cost price was fluctuating and the specific price means the price at which it was actually purchased? Or perhaps "spécifique" goes with "en métropole": specifically en métropole.
Tony M Jun 13, 2015:
@ Charles My thoughts exactly! And could you comment about my suggestion below of 'specific' having a special sense here?
Charles Davis Jun 13, 2015:
@AT Since the order in French is "coût spécifique moyen" rather than "coût moyen spécifique", might the solution simply be that it means "average specific cost price" rather than "specific average cost price"? A specific price perhaps makes more sense than a specific average, but this is not really my field.

Proposed translations

+1
2 hrs
Selected

product specific average production cost / revenue cost

coût spécifique moyen de revient du produit
=
coût spécifique moyen de revient du produit
=
coût de revient moyen spécifique au produit
=
la moyenne (dans le temps?/pour l'ensemble du stock courant?) du coût de revient qui est spécifique au produit (pour un produit précis, pas pour le groupe entier de produits)

=

average product specific production cost / revenue cost

i.e. the average value (for the whole current stock if using the AVCO inventory valuation method) defined as the average production cost / revenue cost, but ONLY for navigational diesel, not for all types of diesel bundled together.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coût_de_revient

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_goods_sold

http://accountingexplained.com/financial/inventories/avco-me...
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
59 mins
Thanks!
neutral Marie-Pascale Wersinger : according to the dictionary, "cost price" exists and refers to the cost of making the product without the profit being added
8 hrs
and it is still a "price" i.e. for how much at least you have to sell to avoid losing any money...
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
56 mins

product mean specific cost price

a variation
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M
3 mins
I thought you might like that little variation
disagree Daryo : can't be a "price"
1 hr
cost price refers to cost of production without any benefits
Something went wrong...
+3
8 mins

average specific cost price of the product

I think if you stick to the FR word order, it may guide you.

I believe this is a specific use of 'specific' (sorry!), meaning something like 'per unit whatsit' — remember expressions in Physics like 'specific heat capacity' and many other similar uses.

I don't like having to split 'specific' and 'price' by inserting 'cost', but I can't think of any glittering alternative way of fitting it in.


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Note added at 37 minutes (2015-06-13 11:25:03 GMT)
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I was also thinking of the usage in FR, where we find things like 'masse spécifique' = specific mass or density.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 heures (2015-06-13 13:09:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The more I think about it, the more I'm coming round to the idea that 'coût spécifique' must mean the 'cost per unit' — presumably, for marine diesel, per tonne.
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : You could well be right about "specific", but in any case I think this is the order.
14 mins
Thanks, Charles!
agree Andrew Bramhall : and deserving of a higher confidence level;
2 hrs
Thanks, Oliver!
disagree Daryo : can't be a "price" // OTOH there is concept of Average cost pricing
2 hrs
'cost price' is a very common term in EN; as I said in my discussion post, the distinction cost/price is not always made the same in EN as coût / prix in FR
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Agree, see my Reference post.
3 hrs
Thanks a lot, Nikki!
agree Edgar Bettridge
17 hrs
Thanks, Edgar!
Something went wrong...
-1
2 hrs

fixed cost of revenue of the product

suggestion

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2015-06-13 13:32:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.economicsonline.co.uk/Business_economics/Costs.ht...
Reference:

http://www.accountingtools.com/questions-and-answers/cost-of-revenue-definition-and-usage.html

http://www.college-cram.com/study/accounting/cost-accounting/fixed-costs/

Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : Both 'fixed cost' and 'revenue' would be incorrect here. / No, 'prix de revient' is buying-in price, and by nature a variable (direct) cost, so can't be a fixed cost / overhead.
8 mins
AFC - average fixed costs ? somehow it still has to do with the revenue of sale
neutral Daryo : you forgot the "average" and "specific" bits, but "cost of revenue" is spot on // can't be any kind of "fixed" costs - the pair fixed/variable costs is from another story altogether ...
18 mins
AFC/ average fixed costs. Not sure how to tie in revenue, although it shows in every graph of my added reference
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

coût spécifique

http://www.unit.eu/cours/kit-gestion-ingenieur/Chapitre-3/Co...

Méthodes des coûts directs et des coûts spécifiques.
Chapitre 2. Les méthodes des coûts spécifiques.
See schéma of Ch 2. Then go to the Synthèse, one slide, of Chapitre 3.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2015-06-13 14:16:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just looked at "coût spécifique" on the GDT : http://www.granddictionnaire.com/ficheOqlf.aspx?Id_Fiche=506...

oût spécifique

Domaine
comptabilité > comptabilité de gestion
Auteur
© Institut Canadien des Comptables Agréés, 2006
Article tiré du Dictionnaire de la comptabilité et de la gestion financière, version 1.2, reproduit sous licence.
Définition
Dans un processus de production aboutissant à plusieurs produits (co-produits ou produit principal et sous-produits), coût engagé après le point de séparation qui est attribuable à un ou à plusieurs des produits devenus identifiables.
Notes
Comparer avec : coût commun.

Voir aussi : coûts spécifiques, point de séparation.
Terme
coût spécifique
Anglais
Haut de la page
Auteur
© Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, 2006
This entry is from the Dictionnaire de la comptabilité et de la gestion financière version 1.2, reproduced under license.
Notes
Compare to: joint cost.

See also: specific costs, split-off point.
Terme
separable cost


Specific cost, separable cost?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2015-06-13 14:19:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In the form of words presented, the "coût" applies both to "specific" and "moyen"; so "coût spécifique" and "coût moyen", i.e., coût spécifique et coût moyen de revient.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2015-06-13 14:20:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The techie term is "coût spécifique", it is qualified by "de revient", the term we are all no doubt familiar with and the whole caboodle is "moyen".
Something went wrong...
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