Why do some English native speakers write poorly in English? থ্রেড পোস্টার: jyuan_us
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jyuan_us 
যুক্তরাষ্ট্র
Local time: 10:26
2005 থেকে সদস্য
ইংরেজি থেকে চাইনিজ/চিনা
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Sometimes my Google searches lead me to some social media sites, and I found that a lot of postings are often very poorly written, with all kinds of problems including grammatical errors, nonsenses, lack of accuracy, and poor text flows, etc. I guess most of these postings are written by native English speakers. Do you think the authors are too careless, or they are ignorant about the standard way of writing in English?
[Edited at 2024-11-21 07:59 GMT]
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Good writing is a skill. Like all skills, it has to be learned and practised.
Most people don't bother to do that. And I'm sure that doesn't refer only to native English speakers.
| | | | | What is the standard? | Nov 21, 2024 |
I think the standard way of English is the one that is modelled in foreign language-learning books. That's the language foreign learners of English expect, but reality is quite different. If you come across a learner of your own native language, I am sure they will think that you are speaking your own language in a non-standard way.
But who can be said to own a language and shape its standard? Particularly with English, linguists have long stopped referring to it in the singular: t... See more I think the standard way of English is the one that is modelled in foreign language-learning books. That's the language foreign learners of English expect, but reality is quite different. If you come across a learner of your own native language, I am sure they will think that you are speaking your own language in a non-standard way.
But who can be said to own a language and shape its standard? Particularly with English, linguists have long stopped referring to it in the singular: they now speak about "Englishes", because there is great variation across the world. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
বসনিয়া ও হার্জেগোভিনা
Local time: 16:26
2009 থেকে সদস্য
ইংরেজি থেকে ক্রোয়েশিয়ান
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Can you provide an example, specifically from Reddit, because you are pointing at Reddit? Reddit are informal chats between informal users, no standard is required. But I’d like to see an example.
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| Good writing in social media? | Nov 21, 2024 |
I would say that what characterises most social media posts in the languages I speak is that they are very badly written, full of grammatical errors and so on. This is, in fact, one of the reasons why I'm averse to social media...
| | | | Zea_Mays
ইটালি
Local time: 16:26
ইংরেজি থেকে জার্মান
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| What makes you think they are native speakers? | Nov 21, 2024 |
Many people commenting in social threads are not English native speakers, but errors from native speakers I often see are 'its' instead of 'it's' and the like in informal communication. Right today I saw 'Tank you' which made me smile.
| | | | Lingua 5B
বসনিয়া ও হার্জেগোভিনা
Local time: 16:26
2009 থেকে সদস্য
ইংরেজি থেকে ক্রোয়েশিয়ান
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Zea_Mays wrote:
Many people commenting in social threads are not English native speakers, but errors from native speakers I often see are 'its' instead of 'it's' and the like in informal communication. Right today I saw 'Tank you' which made me smile.
As Reditt is sectioned by countries, you may be required to have Italian IP to join Reddit Italy, or US IP to join Reddit USA (not sure, my assumption).
It seems like OP changed their post to “Google” instead of Reddit. How can you tell if someone is native via Google, perhaps by their name (is it real on Google)? They say “I guess” they are native speakers, hum.
Very vague and unconvincing assumptions without any examples that we can discuss.
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Someone mistaken the "cat" with "car" and now everyone on instagram are typing "car" for "cat" intentionally. All social medias are informal medias and should be considered as informal, and also the written languages. English words can be spelled differently and the native English speakers will understand clear. For example take my name. It can be spelled like Gjorgji, Georgie, Giorgi... they all sound the same. And what's the right spelling on English? Anyway, I respect this way of not getting ... See more Someone mistaken the "cat" with "car" and now everyone on instagram are typing "car" for "cat" intentionally. All social medias are informal medias and should be considered as informal, and also the written languages. English words can be spelled differently and the native English speakers will understand clear. For example take my name. It can be spelled like Gjorgji, Georgie, Giorgi... they all sound the same. And what's the right spelling on English? Anyway, I respect this way of not getting things so seriously on social medias, because after all we here at Balkans are doing the same thing. With Latin alphabet we are writing Macedonian words, and formally we have Cyrillic alphabet. Serbians, Croatians are writing words informally without č, ć, š, where the words can get different meaning, but they understand clearly.
This informal writing is happening in every language on social medias.
[Edited at 2024-11-21 13:54 GMT]
[Edited at 2024-11-21 13:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Well, in LatAm Spanish, we tend to use informal language.
Just to mention some:
q = que,
xq = porqué,
p/= para (abrir, cerrar, romper or whatever)
Especially on Wapp & the likes...
These are live languages and are in permanent evolution or adaption, the wrong comes in when one cannot discern when or where to use which...
Just thinking...
| | | | | Phone typing | Nov 21, 2024 |
Social media posts are informal and often made with phones, so it's usual to find typos, abbreviations, acronyms and lots of jargons.
| | | | Novian Cahyadi
ইন্দোনেশিয়া
Local time: 22:26
2024 থেকে সদস্য
ইংরেজি থেকে ইন্দোনেশিয়ান
jyuan_us wrote:
Do you think the authors are too careless, or they are ignorant about the standard way of writing in English?
Tell me about it! I've seen some outliers who called french fries as chips. Couldn't believe my eyes.
| | | | | French fries ARE chips! | Nov 22, 2024 |
Novian Cahyadi wrote:
jyuan_us wrote:
Do you think the authors are too careless, or they are ignorant about the standard way of writing in English?
Tell me about it! I've seen some outliers who called french fries as chips. Couldn't believe my eyes.
The standard UK word for potatoes cut into long chunks and fried is chips. As in fish and chips.
The wafer-thin crisp snacks are - of course - called crisps.
But there never has been a single standard. A Yorkshireman who says 'aks' instead of 'ask' is simply maintaining a very old standard that has always been correct in some parts of England. Some of the American variants that we British love to hate are in fact time-honoured and absolutely correct.
Otherwise people play with the language more or less successfully. If a joke falls flat, the reader may think it is just a poor grasp of the language. (But it may just be the reader´s failure to see the point.)
English natives love puns and word-play, and we find the best ones exquisitely funny. Some of the odd formulations may therefore be deliberate, but poor taste or far-fetched examples abound. It may or may not be the same as poor English.
But there are also plenty of examples where there is no excuse - English is a tricky language, and not all natives are born with a talent for expressing themselves clearly and correctly!
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Novian Cahyadi
ইন্দোনেশিয়া
Local time: 22:26
2024 থেকে সদস্য
ইংরেজি থেকে ইন্দোনেশিয়ান
| @Christine Andersen | Nov 22, 2024 |
I was partly trolling, and partly being sarcastic. People seem to be too caught up in defining the One True English™. It wouldn't surprise me, not in the slightest, if someone argues that the African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) is not a valid English variant.
[Edited at 2024-11-22 16:44 GMT]
| | | | Peter Motte
বেলজিয়াম
Local time: 16:26
2009 থেকে সদস্য
ইংরেজি থেকে ডাচ
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| Pestering AI | Nov 25, 2024 |
I see several reasons for the problem:
- huge variation in accepted English
- people who are just not very good at writing in their own language
- texts which aren't actually written by native speakers, but by non-natives using automatic translations etc
- people who just don't care about the quaility they publish on the internet, and their readers aren't capable enough to catch them out
- people who might care but don't because otherwise they're giving training ma... See more I see several reasons for the problem:
- huge variation in accepted English
- people who are just not very good at writing in their own language
- texts which aren't actually written by native speakers, but by non-natives using automatic translations etc
- people who just don't care about the quaility they publish on the internet, and their readers aren't capable enough to catch them out
- people who might care but don't because otherwise they're giving training materials for free to AI's.
I think that last argument could become a strong contributing factor. ▲ Collapse
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