Mar 19, 2020 15:09
4 yrs ago
54 viewers *
French term
France
Technical Translator FR/ES --> EN
Native in: English (Variants: UK, British)
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English
majoré des taxes
French to English
Bus/Financial
Business/Commerce (general)
Hi everyone,
I'm translating a marketing agreement and would love a bit of help in determining how best to translate "majoré des taxes" in the following sentence. For info, this pricing clause is under the section on financial terms:
"Le prix est défini hors taxes et est majoré des taxes, notamment de la TVA en vigueur au jour de la facturation."
I'm currently going with
"The price is defined exclusive of tax and adjusted/increased to include the VAT in force on the date of invoicing."
Any thoughts or better turns of phrase would be great!
I'm translating a marketing agreement and would love a bit of help in determining how best to translate "majoré des taxes" in the following sentence. For info, this pricing clause is under the section on financial terms:
"Le prix est défini hors taxes et est majoré des taxes, notamment de la TVA en vigueur au jour de la facturation."
I'm currently going with
"The price is defined exclusive of tax and adjusted/increased to include the VAT in force on the date of invoicing."
Any thoughts or better turns of phrase would be great!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +7 | to which VAT will be added |
Tony M
|
| 4 +2 | applicable |
Helene Tammik
|
| 5 -1 | Price defined as pre-tax and will be increased by taxes (including VAT) |
Eliza Hall
|
Change log
Mar 19, 2020 17:39: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "Prix défini hors taxe et majoré des taxes (notamment TVA)" to "majoré des taxes "
Proposed translations
+7
6 mins
French term (edited):
majoré des taxes
Selected
to which VAT will be added
I'd try to get completely away from the FR formulation, since this is simply not the sort of way we express things like this in EN.
If you can't risk simplifying it as I have done, then you could make it something like: 'to which taxes will be added, in particular, VAT' — it depends what the countries involved are, and to what extent these details are relevant / applicable.
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Note added at 42 mins (2020-03-19 15:52:11 GMT)
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Me neither, really... but I can only think of things like customs dues, which would NOT be included here; I suppose they mean "...or any other such taxes as might from time to time or at some time in the future be implemented"!!
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Note added at 17 hrs (2020-03-20 08:37:55 GMT)
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As for that 'défini', I'd be inclined to use 'prices will be stated / expressed...' — its is only 'defined' in the sense of 'set down in our information'; i.e. "when we talk about prices, this is how they are to be understood"
If you can't risk simplifying it as I have done, then you could make it something like: 'to which taxes will be added, in particular, VAT' — it depends what the countries involved are, and to what extent these details are relevant / applicable.
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Note added at 42 mins (2020-03-19 15:52:11 GMT)
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Me neither, really... but I can only think of things like customs dues, which would NOT be included here; I suppose they mean "...or any other such taxes as might from time to time or at some time in the future be implemented"!!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2020-03-20 08:37:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As for that 'défini', I'd be inclined to use 'prices will be stated / expressed...' — its is only 'defined' in the sense of 'set down in our information'; i.e. "when we talk about prices, this is how they are to be understood"
Note from asker:
| Hi Tony, Thanks for your help! I believe that it's an agreement between France and the UK. I would be hesitant to just put VAT, your second option seems to fit the bill better. |
| Although...now I think about it, maybe we ARE just talking about VAT after all! Hence different applicable VAT rates... I'm afraid I'm not clued up enough about taxes to be authoritative on this. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
philgoddard
: I agree that we simply wouldn't say this in English. You could reduce it to "the price excludes VAT and other taxes", though there are no other taxes.
33 mins
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Thanks, Phil!
|
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| agree |
Eliza Hall
: This works. I disagree that we wouldn't say this -- certainly not in normal EN, but in a contract we would. The point is to ensure the other party can't claim not to have known the contract price was pre-tax and taxes would be added.
2 hrs
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Thanks, Eliza! I fear you misunderstand me: I wasn't saying we wouldn't express this idea, simply the particular way of expressing it using 'majorer'
|
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| agree |
Timothy Rake
2 hrs
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Thanks, Timothy!
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| agree |
James A. Walsh
3 hrs
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Thanks, James!
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| agree |
SafeTex
: Yes, but what I like here is the calm reasoning and the choice given to the asker if she does not want to simplify as much as you.
7 hrs
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Thanks, S/T!
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| agree |
Francois Boye
9 hrs
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Merci, François !
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
1 day 7 hrs
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Thanks, C!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
7 mins
Helene Tammik
Native in English
Specializes in field
Une belle plume - en anglais
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, Swedish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
11
French term (edited):
Prix défini hors taxe et majoré des taxes (notamment TVA)
applicable
The price is set exclusive of tax, and taxes including VAT will be added when the invoice is issued, at the rate applicable on that date.
Another suggested formulation.
Another suggested formulation.
Note from asker:
| Hi Helene, Thanks for your help too! I like the phrasing and of course it's "set" rather than "defined" for "défini"...! You've definitely given me food for thought. :) |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Philippa Smith
: Hi Helene! :-)
42 mins
|
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Hello Philippa! Thanks :-)
|
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| agree |
Paul Stevens
1 day 1 hr
|
-1
27 mins
Eliza Hall
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Lawyer-Translator-Certified Interpreter
Native in: English (Variants: US, Scottish, Canadian, Irish, British, UK)
Works in: French to English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
8
French term (edited):
Prix défini hors taxe et majoré des taxes (notamment TVA)
Price defined as pre-tax and will be increased by taxes (including VAT)
Pretty straightforward. FR contracts often use the present tense where EN contracts would say "will" or "shall," hence change from "majoré" to "WILL BE increased."
Note from asker:
| Thanks for your help Eliza. Thanks for the heads up about changing everything from the present to "shall", it's something that I was actually in the process of doing! :) |
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
SafeTex
: wrong for about 5 reasons. See discussion
7 hrs
|
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: "Will be increased by" is unnecessarily clumsy when a construction using "added" is all that is needed here
1 day 7 hrs
|
Discussion
Thanks for your input and comments. I've decided to go with Tony's answer on this occasion. Just to make things clear, I am a new poster but I am not new to ProZ by any means. I did intentionally choose to restrict answers to native speakers and those specialised or at least working in the field as I have sometimes seen suggestions that do not fit the context and would run the risk of leading less experienced translators astray.
To be perfectly honest, I can't remember whether I restricted the posts/peer comments to paying members. @Writeaway, I have often seen your answers in other discussions, it didn't even occur to me that I might be blocking people who regularly give input. However, please exercise care when venting out your frustrations out on the wrong person. Someone new to this platform could feel daunted and not want to post again. I suggest that you take up your grievances directly with ProZ to see if they can find a solution.
At any rate, have a lovely day and stay safe all of you.
Séverine
Yes, "prices" can be defined in specific cases like:
"the quantity of payment or compensation given by one party to another in return for one unit of goods or services. (wiki)
but in everyday English, shops give prices excluding/without or including/with VAT
The question was Commerce>General English and not >Finance>Economic theory
And the same answerer went on to say "prices are increased by taxes" !!! which also sounds strange in everyday English would you not agree?
Regards
After a good night's sleep and all your very valuable input, things are indeed looking a lot clearer than they were yesterday when I was getting bogged down in my translation!
Yes indeed, an excessive use of "shall" would have been inappropriate, will proofread again now I'm more rested to make sure I'm using the correct tense according to the context I have.
Many thanks once again!
I too go with Tony M and the agrees there
It's hard at times not to let ourselves be over-influenced (or under-influenced) by the source language but in English:
Prices are not "defined"...they are "given",
and
"without/excluding" tax (not "pre-tax")
and prices are not "increased by taxes" when we speak in particular of VAT. VAT is "added" or "applied".
The future tense is wrong too as this is of course a "routine" so the present simple is indeed best ("Prices are given.... and VAT is applied/added")
I often sleep on stuff like this and in the morning, it becomes much clearer
Regards
In this case, that is not the case: party A is simply stipulating what THEY intend to do; in this instance, I think Eliza's alternative suggestion of using a simple future with 'will' is more applicable.
A good test is to imagine the same sentence using 'must (be)' instead of 'shall (be)' — you can then clearly see if it is nonsense or not!