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Does this sound suspicious/like money laundering?
Thread poster: Stéphanie Denton (X)
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei
Kuochoe Nikoi-Kotei  Identity Verified
Ghana
Local time: 13:56
Japanese to English
A word of caution Jun 4, 2011

Please go to the Scams forum. 90% of the scams reported there are exactly this kind of scam. Do your research about overpayment scams and speak to your bank about it immediately.

 
Stéphanie Denton (X)
Stéphanie Denton (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:56
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Spoken to both bank and police Jun 4, 2011

The bank still assure me that the cheque is fine.

The police have told me that if I can take the funds out, and they've cleared then it's not a scam...

I don't know. Maybe I like to think the best of people too much...I'm desperately hoping that it's not a scam.

The translation hasn't been completed, as I wasn't going to start it till the funds had cleared, which was today. So if it is, I haven't lost anything, expect my trust in people.


 
keshab
keshab  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:26
English to Bengali
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SITE LOCALIZER
Money Laundering Jun 4, 2011

I think your initial guess was correct. It's a case of money laundering. If anyone have undisclosed money (in India it is called 'black money') and now he want to legalize it, then he can send a huge money to a service provider like you and afterward can request to refund the excess amount (which may be also huge after deducting your fees, I presume). Now you, a legal service provider is going to send money through legal means like western union. Now that person just 'purified' his money in leg... See more
I think your initial guess was correct. It's a case of money laundering. If anyone have undisclosed money (in India it is called 'black money') and now he want to legalize it, then he can send a huge money to a service provider like you and afterward can request to refund the excess amount (which may be also huge after deducting your fees, I presume). Now you, a legal service provider is going to send money through legal means like western union. Now that person just 'purified' his money in legal way. Your act will be here just a 'medium'.
I am not saying that this guess is correct but I never heard that a client send a huge amount to a translator before the translation done. Only this may be a scam. But you said you have cashed your check. So...we have to admit it is a peculiar behavior from the side of a client
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Giuseppina Gatta, MA (Hons)
Giuseppina Gatta, MA (Hons)
English to Italian
+ ...
Sometimes... Jun 4, 2011

Stéphanie Denton wrote:

The bank still assure me that the cheque is fine.

The police have told me that if I can take the funds out, and they've cleared then it's not a scam...

I don't know. Maybe I like to think the best of people too much...I'm desperately hoping that it's not a scam.

The translation hasn't been completed, as I wasn't going to start it till the funds had cleared, which was today. So if it is, I haven't lost anything, expect my trust in people.


...as other colleagues have said, it takes even one year before the bank discovers something wrong with the cheque. So I would not be so confident, also because they came back to you with another "offer".


 
Arabic & More
Arabic & More  Identity Verified
Jordan
Arabic to English
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Classic scam Jun 4, 2011

Hi Stephanie,
The reason the check has cleared is most likely because the scammer is using someone else's bank account without their knowledge. As others have already mentioned, this is a classic scam. I would do my best to extricate myself from this situation ASAP. Can you talk to the bank the check came from? Perhaps they can check the account number and verify the identity of the account holder for you. Under no circumstances, however, would I refund the difference via Western Union. Ev
... See more
Hi Stephanie,
The reason the check has cleared is most likely because the scammer is using someone else's bank account without their knowledge. As others have already mentioned, this is a classic scam. I would do my best to extricate myself from this situation ASAP. Can you talk to the bank the check came from? Perhaps they can check the account number and verify the identity of the account holder for you. Under no circumstances, however, would I refund the difference via Western Union. Even if we don't know exactly what happened here, I think it is 99.999% clear that you are being scammed in some way.
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Arabic & More
Arabic & More  Identity Verified
Jordan
Arabic to English
+ ...
Google Jun 4, 2011

By the way, have you Googled the scammer's name and the contents of his letter? You will probably find lots of information this way.

 
Tomoyuki Kono
Tomoyuki Kono  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:56
Member (2010)
English to Japanese
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I don't think your bank has addressed your concerns. Jun 4, 2011

My second post seems to have disappeared and I apologise if this post repeats the same point.

Your bank seems to be referring to 'clearance' in the conventional sense of the term but it is precisely this false sense of security that scammers exploit in this type of scam:

http://netcred.co.uk/security/overpayment-or-advance-payment-scam.html
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My second post seems to have disappeared and I apologise if this post repeats the same point.

Your bank seems to be referring to 'clearance' in the conventional sense of the term but it is precisely this false sense of security that scammers exploit in this type of scam:

http://netcred.co.uk/security/overpayment-or-advance-payment-scam.html

The fact that the fund is accessible means nothing. That only means that the cheque's originating account was 'real' and had sufficient funds.

You have clearly taken every precaution and contacted the right people, who are supposed to be trained to deal with this kind of matter, but the question is, have they taken every precaution against it? I don't think so. I seriously hope that they logged your concerns and their advice to you in their system. If this case does prove to be a scam, as I'm inclined to believe it is, it will be the bank who will look bad.

You should explain your unease to your client by stating that what they are asking you to do resembles the classic overpayment scam. If they continue to insist that you pay back the difference by Western Union, I would take that as a confirmation that this is a definite case of scam.

Tomo
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Stéphanie Denton (X)
Stéphanie Denton (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:56
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Global response Jun 4, 2011

I have googled the initial "client" and the second person who e-mailed me, plus the contents of their e-mails and nothing!

They both say that they are residents in Paris, and shall be travelling to the UK shortly.

I have spoken to the bank again, and booked an appointment with the bank manager on Monday. I intend to move the funds to a seperate account until I know what is going on, to cover my own back. But botht the bank and the police say that the funds have definite
... See more
I have googled the initial "client" and the second person who e-mailed me, plus the contents of their e-mails and nothing!

They both say that they are residents in Paris, and shall be travelling to the UK shortly.

I have spoken to the bank again, and booked an appointment with the bank manager on Monday. I intend to move the funds to a seperate account until I know what is going on, to cover my own back. But botht the bank and the police say that the funds have definitely cleared and been debited from the company's account.

My main concern is that they may have stolen the company's cheque book and I don't want to be accused of stealing! I'm going to call the company on Monday too, and see what they have to say.

As I said, I won't have lost anything if it all "goes tits up" as we so boldly say in the UK, just knocked my pride. You hear of people being scammed all the time, and always think: this will never happen to me... I'm glad that the second person e-mailed me, as it opened my eyes.

I need to stop being so trusting I think! I feel like a mug. Not helped by certain people's comments about being "stupid". I'm not the first person to be scammed, nor will I be the last, and I hope that this happens to noone else.
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Stéphanie Denton (X)
Stéphanie Denton (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:56
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hindsight... Jun 4, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

I think this will definitely teach you that nobody who does not know you will pay for a job in advance, and never --never!!!-- an amount higher than agreed. It is immediately fishy, and it amazes me that you were so naïve as to cash the check!! At the very least, you should have destroyed it and asked for a correct one!!

[Edited at 2011-06-04 21:07 GMT]


...is a wonderful thing.

Not so much being naïve as too trusting.

I have done all that I can till Monday, the police aren't being helpful, they seem to think everything seems above board!


 
Steve Derry
Steve Derry  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:56
German to English
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Money Laundering - yes Jun 4, 2011

Hi Stéphanie,
The above posts are all correct, yes, it will be a scam. And yes, I'm afraid it would come under Money Laundering. If you search Section 327 of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, what has happened would come under "converting criminal property" i.e. converting a stolen/counterfeit cheque into cash (and also "transferring" it via Western Union".
HOWEVER - don't panic just yet. You say you have spoken to your bank/the Police? In case you haven't, could I suggest you speak t
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Hi Stéphanie,
The above posts are all correct, yes, it will be a scam. And yes, I'm afraid it would come under Money Laundering. If you search Section 327 of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, what has happened would come under "converting criminal property" i.e. converting a stolen/counterfeit cheque into cash (and also "transferring" it via Western Union".
HOWEVER - don't panic just yet. You say you have spoken to your bank/the Police? In case you haven't, could I suggest you speak to the dedicated fraud department at the bank and the Economic Crime Department of your local Police, or better still, have a look at the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau's web site, where you can also report it. No disrespect to your local Police Station, but they may not have much experience in these things. The funds may well clear from the cheque, but if it's a high quality counterfeit or it was stolen from the back of a company's cheque book, it may not be noticed for some time, then they will follow the paper trail to your account. However (as suggested by Tomas) report it to both and keep copies that you did so. Out of interest, to what country have they asked the Western Union transfer to be made? Depending on the country (and the location of the account holder of the original cheque) there might be something that can be done. Of course (and the bad guys now this) if it's a stolen cheque from an obscure bank in another country and the W.U. transfer is to certain parts of the World, there might not be much they can do other than make sure you don't send any money.
In a nutshell, you're right to be suspicious about it and to report it.
Regards
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Neil Coffey
Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:56
French to English
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Make sure you get it in writing I suppose... Jun 5, 2011

If you've reported what sounds like an obvious case of money laundering to both your bank and the police and neither appear interested, then I suppose I would at least make sure that you get something signed in writing from both of them that they believe there is no evidence of criminal activity, and make sure that the police have actually filed the fact that you reported the matter.

Don't know what you do with the money in this case to be honest. I'd probably leave it where it is f
... See more
If you've reported what sounds like an obvious case of money laundering to both your bank and the police and neither appear interested, then I suppose I would at least make sure that you get something signed in writing from both of them that they believe there is no evidence of criminal activity, and make sure that the police have actually filed the fact that you reported the matter.

Don't know what you do with the money in this case to be honest. I'd probably leave it where it is for now.

If you were to use this method, I'm fairly sure that Western Union will ask you to sign something saying that to the best of your knowledge the money you are sending is not involved in illegal activities. I'd probably wait till you get written confirmation from your bank and the police before sending it.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't send the money by Western Union, though. Send them a cheque. If they're a legitimate business, they'll be able to cash a cheque (even a foreign one), won't they...? If it was a genuine mistake on their part, they won't mind paying an extra fee for that mistake.


[Edited at 2011-06-05 02:06 GMT]
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matt robinson
matt robinson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:56
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Put it down to experience Jun 5, 2011

This is a scam.
It probably seemed like a great offer and you still want to believe that it is; that's how scams work. As a rule real agencies are more interested in the translation first, and payment usually comes a slow second. How much concern did they show regarding the proposed job?
Of course the cheque cleared. You wouldn't have sent them money before banking the cheque, would you? The clearing cheque is the part of the scam that makes you think everything is above board. It w
... See more
This is a scam.
It probably seemed like a great offer and you still want to believe that it is; that's how scams work. As a rule real agencies are more interested in the translation first, and payment usually comes a slow second. How much concern did they show regarding the proposed job?
Of course the cheque cleared. You wouldn't have sent them money before banking the cheque, would you? The clearing cheque is the part of the scam that makes you think everything is above board. It will turn out to be a stolen cheque book or from the cheque book of someone not able to manage their accounts (a scammer with access to the finances of an elderly person, for example). When/If the fraud is discovered (probably when) the money will be taken from your account. This could be many months into the future.
The same applies to credit card payments. Money can be transferred to your account but if there is fraud involved it will be recovered on discovery.
Under no circumstances return any amount of money.
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Steve Derry
Steve Derry  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:56
German to English
+ ...
Further contact. Jun 5, 2011

Tomás is absolutely right - sending the money to them is the wrong thing to do and would only assist in them getting their hands on their ill-gotten gains.
Another point, these types of groups sell/pass on details of people who have unwittingly assisted them to other gangs. It would not be unusual to find yourself in the position, once the fraud has been discovered and the stolen funds recovered from your account (leaving you out of pocket) that someone claiming to be "an attorney" (or si
... See more
Tomás is absolutely right - sending the money to them is the wrong thing to do and would only assist in them getting their hands on their ill-gotten gains.
Another point, these types of groups sell/pass on details of people who have unwittingly assisted them to other gangs. It would not be unusual to find yourself in the position, once the fraud has been discovered and the stolen funds recovered from your account (leaving you out of pocket) that someone claiming to be "an attorney" (or similar) contacts you stating that, for a "small fee" upfront they can recover your money. After that, amazingly they will have recovered the money, but as it was in an off-shore account, you will need to pay the taxes and (what's left) will be yours. And so the circle continues.
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Does this sound suspicious/like money laundering?







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