Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
(pour) memoire = p.m.
English translation:
for info
Added to glossary by
Tony M
Jul 18, 2018 03:54
5 yrs ago
17 viewers *
French term
memoire
French to English
Bus/Financial
Real Estate
notarized document
In a notarized deed of sale for a farm and its equipment, there is a list of equipment and its prices. A number of entries show no price, and in place of the price in Euros we find the word MEMOIRE. What does that mean and how do I translate it into English?
Proposed translations
(English)
2 +3 | for info | Tony M |
4 +1 | indicative amount (depending on final sales price) / for information purposes | Kevin Oheix |
Change log
Jul 20, 2018 11:50: Tony M Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+3
4 hrs
Selected
for info
I have come across this in other contexts where it simply means in essence "something that needs to be taken into account" but is not given an actual figure. I've seen it sued, for example, in cooking recipes, where it means "you'll need to remember to add salt and pepper, but we're not telling you the exact quantity"
In your context, I imagine they are including things in the list, but not actually assigning them any specific value — they just want the buyer to take into account the fact that all these extra items are included in the overall valuation, even if they are not actually being individually priced. It's just a more formal way of avoiding writing "€ 0" — which psychologically tends to make the reader think it isn't worth anything!
Perhaps you can add up all the figures to see if this makes sense?
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Note added at 8 hrs (2018-07-18 12:00:17 GMT)
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Yes, Asker, that does indeed seem to be along the same lines, doesn't it? It probably means the items are so old they have long since been depreciated and hence have no 'book' value — if this was originally a business, the figures used for the values might well be taken from the actual accounts, which would explain the distinction being made. And 'occasion' could well mean it had originally been bought second-hand, and so never had any book value in the first place, say (no original invoice from new)
In your context, I imagine they are including things in the list, but not actually assigning them any specific value — they just want the buyer to take into account the fact that all these extra items are included in the overall valuation, even if they are not actually being individually priced. It's just a more formal way of avoiding writing "€ 0" — which psychologically tends to make the reader think it isn't worth anything!
Perhaps you can add up all the figures to see if this makes sense?
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Note added at 8 hrs (2018-07-18 12:00:17 GMT)
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Yes, Asker, that does indeed seem to be along the same lines, doesn't it? It probably means the items are so old they have long since been depreciated and hence have no 'book' value — if this was originally a business, the figures used for the values might well be taken from the actual accounts, which would explain the distinction being made. And 'occasion' could well mean it had originally been bought second-hand, and so never had any book value in the first place, say (no original invoice from new)
Note from asker:
So far, this sounds like the likeliest answer. Pity I don't know a French notary public. |
Several of the "memoire" items are also marked "occasion", that is probably second-hand, which would make their resale value small or none. This might fit in with your explana |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I suspect it is referring to "mémoire" as in "invoice, cost, etc." and not as in the expression "pour mémoire". Here, from what the asker says, it is just "mémoire" alone.
45 mins
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I have seen 'PM' used as well as 'mémoire' on its own.
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agree |
Kevin Oheix
: Sorry, my suggestion is very similar, I was only paying attention to the discussion, so you should have the points, of course ;)
3 hrs
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Merci, Kevin ! The first part of your answer is quite different, so I'm sure that may be what helps Asker here :-)
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agree |
Jennifer Levey
: Your explanation is correct - it refers to items that need to appear in the inventory but which have no formal value (or maybe zero value). More commonly "pour mémoire" in French (or even "p.m.").
16 hrs
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Thanks, Robin!
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agree |
Peter Shortall
: This explanation has just helped me out a lot, thanks Tony! Makes perfect sense in my personal injury-related context (heads of damages), where I'm thinking of translating it as "amount not specified" or some such.
2072 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "If I could, I would give one or two of these points to Robin Levey, who gave the confirmation I needed. But at any rate you got it right. Thanks to you both."
+1
7 hrs
indicative amount (depending on final sales price) / for information purposes
Provisional sales agreement. Costs itemized in a notarized bill of sale.
"Mémoire" usually refers to the frais d'acte de vente; expenses relating to the deed of sale.
Mémoire de frais (also "état des frais") = Bill of costs, detailed statement of fees.
"Mémoire : État détaillé des sommes dues à un entrepreneur, un artisan, un fournisseur, un homme de justice."
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/mémoire
See page 22: "Montant des frais (estimé)":
https://media.immobilier.notaires.fr/inotr/documents/0/17116...
http://www.reseauetudiant.com/forum-clerc-notaire-etudiant-g...
"Pour mémoire" mentionné dans une déclaration fiscale, un acte notarié tel un inventaire, signifie simplement "à titre de renseignement ou d'information."
So, here it means "for reference", "envisaged/anticipated costs", hence my suggestion.
"Mémoire" usually refers to the frais d'acte de vente; expenses relating to the deed of sale.
Mémoire de frais (also "état des frais") = Bill of costs, detailed statement of fees.
"Mémoire : État détaillé des sommes dues à un entrepreneur, un artisan, un fournisseur, un homme de justice."
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/mémoire
See page 22: "Montant des frais (estimé)":
https://media.immobilier.notaires.fr/inotr/documents/0/17116...
http://www.reseauetudiant.com/forum-clerc-notaire-etudiant-g...
"Pour mémoire" mentionné dans une déclaration fiscale, un acte notarié tel un inventaire, signifie simplement "à titre de renseignement ou d'information."
So, here it means "for reference", "envisaged/anticipated costs", hence my suggestion.
Note from asker:
I can't have explained myself properly. This was not a provisional document and it did not refer to frais to do with the sale, It was the final, notarized deed of sale, and it set out the value of the things being bought. Either I did not understand your answer, or I did not explain myself. |
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: The problem with "indicative amount" is that there is no price against the entries, according to the asker
2 hrs
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agree |
GILLES MEUNIER
: for reference (dans vos notes). J'ai trouvé cette traduction dans un glossaire juridique
18 hrs
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D'accord, merci.
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Discussion